HisChildForever Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1769248' date='Feb 2 2009, 12:03 AM']I'm sorry I meant to have said reading the whole page(s) those quotes come from as a whole that the quotes are more anti-Judaism. But I was using my ipod to respond. Also by say 'much' I did not mean all. It would seem somethings said sound bad, but I do not know if I am prepared to accuse priests of speaking verbatim of Hitler, when that doesn't at it's core seem to be the case. What seems to be the core of issue the fathers have is anti-Judaism, thou at times they do take it too far.[/quote] Would you be able to justify anti-Catholicism? No. So why are you trying to justify anti-Judaism?
KnightofChrist Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1769652' date='Feb 2 2009, 09:58 AM']Would you be able to justify anti-Catholicism? No. So why are you trying to justify anti-Judaism?[/quote] Catholicism is the one True Faith, Judaism as it is today is heretical, and false.
Madame Vengier Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1769652' date='Feb 2 2009, 09:58 AM']Would you be able to justify anti-Catholicism? No. So why are you trying to justify anti-Judaism?[/quote] Uh-huh. Exactly.
Madame Vengier Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I'm taking note of the ease (and sometimes, GLEE) with which many Catholics condemn the Jews, even referring to their theology as "heretical", while not lifting a finger to criticize Islam for that and so much worse.
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 There is nothing supercilious about stating that today's Judaism is a false religion. Rabbinism is NOT the same Judaism as existed in 33AD and therefore the majority of modern, practicing Jews are devoted to a religion redefined in the absence of Christ and the temple. As has been stated, the Talmud is obviously anti-Christian in several places. That said, I agree with Tink that these statements about the economic and social "virulence" of the Jewish people just reeks of Anti-semitism no matter how much this group tries to hide it with semantics. Accusing a social group of economic poison is a great way to start a riot or a holocaust. The Jewish people following a religion of theological errors (along without about 4Billion other people...). Beyond bad theology, they are just like everyone else and this verbal poison needs to stop. If SSPX could keep to the issues of bad theology, their criticisms might be productive rather than inflaming.
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1769666' date='Feb 2 2009, 09:58 AM']I'm taking note of the ease (and sometimes, GLEE) with which many Catholics condemn the Jews, even referring to their theology as "heretical", while not lifting a finger to criticize Islam for that and so much worse.[/quote] The Talmud is heretical. I agree with your sentiment that many traditional Catholics have an pervading anti-jewishness about them. However, I would think most of the people taking the time to carry around a bigotted attitude toward the Jews do not spare the muslims any slack. Nor Protestantism nor Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone else. Regardless, bad theology is spiritual poison and deserves our evangeligism and charity for faithful conversion. What will NOT convert the Jews and Muslims is vitriol. Disparaging these people in no way demonstrates how they "will know we are Christian by our love." "But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you. But with modesty and fear, having a good conscience: that whereas they speak evil of you, they may be ashamed who falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." 1 Pet 3:15-16 ~Todd Edited February 2, 2009 by Veridicus
Madame Vengier Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1769668' date='Feb 2 2009, 11:00 AM']There is nothing supercilious about stating that today's Judaism is a false religion. Rabbinism is NOT the same Judaism as existed in 33AD and therefore the majority of modern, practicing Jews are devoted to a religion redefined in the absence of Christ and the temple. As has been stated, the Talmud is obviously anti-Christian in several places. That said, I agree with Tink that these statements about the economic and social "virulence" of the Jewish people just reeks of Anti-semitism no matter how much this group tries to hide it with semantics. Accusing a social group of economic poison is a great way to start a riot or a holocaust. The Jewish people following a religion of theological errors (along without about 4Billion other people...). Beyond bad theology, they are just like everyone else and this verbal poison needs to stop. If SSPX could keep to the issues of bad theology, their criticisms might be productive rather than inflaming.[/quote] Non-Jews have no right nor place to judge what is properly Jewish. Just like non-Muslims have no right nor place to refer to Islamic terrorists and radicals as "bad Muslims". I really resent that.
KnightofChrist Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1769666' date='Feb 2 2009, 10:58 AM']I'm taking note of the ease (and sometimes, GLEE) with which many Catholics condemn the Jews, even referring to their theology as "heretical", while not lifting a finger to criticize Islam for that and so much worse.[/quote] Islam is also heretical and false.
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1769672' date='Feb 2 2009, 10:10 AM']Non-Jews have no right nor place to judge what is properly Jewish. Just like non-Muslims have no right nor place to refer to Islamic terrorists and radicals as "bad Muslims". I really resent that.[/quote] Catholicism exists de facto that Judaism is no longer a valid religion. Through Christ, Catholicism fulfilled Jewish practice and Jewish law. The Catholic Church supplanted Judaism as the People of God by becoming the Body of Christ and his inheritors. And when the Jewish faith forked away from it's previous tenets following the destruction of the Temple, it ceased altogether being "Jewish" in the proper sense of the word. Have you been reading the daily scriptures recently? Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews expresses this sentiment; the Jewish priesthood can no longer stand before God for the people; as if the writers of the Talmud stand next to Christ at the right hand of the Father expiating for the Jews. The Jewish culture continued, but authentic Jewish 'religion' basically has ceased to exist. I am not telling Jewish people what they can and can't do. If you think that then you are taking my words out of context just for the sake of argument. I am not telling Muslims what they can and cannot do. What I said was that their theology was bad; in fact I CRITICIZED the SSPX for having the arrogance to claim that Jews should or should not be part of a Christian economic system or society. The SSPX has serious issues with any form of liberal democracy so what do you expect? What I am saying is that Catholicism is the true Fatih and all religions which have developed since 33AD are man-made attempts at an alternative; Rabbinic Judaism, Islam, Protestantism, Scientology, Raelianism, etc. It is not as if salvation can flow from any other source than through the Body of Christ which subsists within the Catholic Church.
Hassan Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1769672' date='Feb 2 2009, 11:10 AM']Non-Jews have no right nor place to judge what is properly Jewish. Just like non-Muslims have no right nor place to refer to Islamic terrorists and radicals as "bad Muslims". I really resent that.[/quote] But you have a right to judge what is in line with Islam? Something you do on a regular basis
Hassan Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1769666' date='Feb 2 2009, 10:58 AM']I'm taking note of the ease (and sometimes, GLEE) with which many Catholics condemn the Jews, even referring to their theology as "heretical", while not lifting a finger to criticize Islam for that and so much worse.[/quote] Who would that be? Edited February 2, 2009 by Hassan
KnightofChrist Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1769691' date='Feb 2 2009, 11:56 AM']Who would that be?[/quote] Really because I have criticized Islam, radical and otherwise.
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 In all seriousness, I think it is clear that the SSPX statments villify the Jewish people on grounds outside of theology (which as I have said several times is completely unjust) and their newest statement just seems like semantic garbage to me. But sometimes with the tantilizing hope of Christian Unity you have to eat the semantic garbage and hope you can mold a more rational, loving mindset when they come around on the doctrinal issues which separate them from Mother Church.
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1769668' date='Feb 2 2009, 08:00 AM']There is nothing supercilious about stating that today's Judaism is a false religion. Rabbinism is NOT the same Judaism as existed in 33AD and therefore the majority of modern, practicing Jews are devoted to a religion redefined in the absence of Christ and the temple. . . .[/quote] I agree. Rabbinic Judaism is not Biblical Judaism. Christianity is the continuation and fulfillment of Biblical Judaism.
HisChildForever Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1769660' date='Feb 2 2009, 09:24 AM']Catholicism is the one True Faith, Judaism as it is today is heretical, and false.[/quote] So that justifies all the garbage the SSPX has published on their website?
KnightofChrist Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1769929' date='Feb 2 2009, 04:28 PM']So that justifies all the garbage the SSPX has published on their website?[/quote] The parts that are anti-Semitism not justified because hatred of an ethnic group is sinful. The parts that are anti-Judaism are justified because 'Judaism' is false.
cmotherofpirl Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1769668' date='Feb 2 2009, 11:00 AM']That said, I agree with Tink that these statements about the economic and social "virulence" of the Jewish people just reeks of Anti-semitism no matter how much this group tries to hide it with semantics. Accusing a social group of economic poison is a great way to start a riot or a holocaust.[/quote] This is exactly one of the tactics Hitler used.
Veridicus Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1770023' date='Feb 2 2009, 05:35 PM']This is exactly one of the tactics Hitler used.[/quote] That was Tink's point!
Seven77 Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1769979' date='Feb 2 2009, 05:56 PM']The parts that are anti-Semitism not justified because hatred of an ethnic group is sinful. The parts that are anti-Judaism are justified because 'Judaism' is false.[/quote] I don't know what 'Judaism' is but Judaism is not false. It's incomplete and misled through no fault of it's own.
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Seven77' post='1770037' date='Feb 2 2009, 03:48 PM']I don't know what 'Judaism' is but Judaism is not false. It's incomplete and misled through no fault of it's own.[/quote] Christianity is the continuation and fulfillment of Biblical Judaism, while Rabbinic Judaism is the religion devised by the Rabbis after the time of Christ; the former is true, and the latter is false. Christ is the sole savior of the world, which means that anyone who is saved is saved by Him.
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