Hassan Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1775027' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:31 PM']However, she did not read the post. I am wondering if anyone did besides cmom I liked your post picchick. [/quote] me
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='osapientia' post='1775025' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:30 PM']I don't agree that "anyone who says it is not just hasn't tasted it yet". How do you know that? It's entirely possible that women with a lot of experience in management may just have acquired the skills to be very balanced. It may very well be difficult when one is starting out - I find young people in mangement to be far more "bossy and stern" than their older (successful) counterparts. Because of a situation beyond my control I am currently out in the workforce again. I have 25+ years experience - much of it in upper management in a mostly male field. I lead men and women every single day of every single week and I would be utterly shocked to find any one of them who considers me "bossy". In fact, the number of names on the waiting list to get onto my team is longer than the number of allocated for the entire project.....not all of that is about me personally (I'm grateful to God to say that some of it is) - it happens to be a very successful team working on a very interesting project. In my considerable experience "bossy" is an attitude in need of adjustment and it often reflects a fair amount of insecurity (or at the very least inexperience). That kind of attitude won't take anyone very far. There isn't a person on my team who regards me as anything other than feminine - I have learned to lead from my center - the true self that God gave me (and YES, I agree that Grace is an uncomparable gift here) - my center is decidedly feminine whether or not I happen to be at the head of a conference table. I am not trying to be picky about your words but in context I do think you mean it the way I am interpreting. If I'm wrong about that, I will stand corrected. Women in just about every role/walk of life there is are called upon to lead in one way or another - mothers lead children and often have to be strong and stern in their correction, the same goes for superiors in religious houses, ditto for women in corporate positions. This is not a lack of femininity. I think that one would be hard pressed to say that the wife described in Proverbs 31 is anything but strong and independent...and still she is the pride and joy of her husband. At least the Scriptures seem to indicate that a Godly husband (with a Godly wife) is pleased by a strong and independent woman. Furthermore there doesn't appear to be any conflict with femininity because that Chapter is regularly regarded as depicting the Scriptural feminine ideal. Pax[/quote] Please read my post and not just the tid-bit that HCF plucked out and took out of context. Edited February 7, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria
osapientia Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1775017' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:26 PM']Also, independent doesn't necessarily mean that we don't need anyone. We are all connected. Even the most independent person depends on at least one person if not more. It is not a sign of weakness. It is being human. Alrighty, Meg[/quote] This is a very good point. In fact, it is said by many a professional counselor (spiritual and clinical) that "independence" is an an adolescent stage but inter-dependence is a sign of greater maturity. I'm sure there is more to it all than that....just making a general observation I have often heard. Pax
picchick Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1775027' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:31 PM']I wrote (which she would know if she read the entire post before she went off on me) that I believe a woman can be all those things at the same time. It is difficult, but I believe she can do it with the grace of God, as so many heroic women have. However, she did not read the post. I am wondering if anyone did besides cmom I liked your post picchick. [/quote] Thanks. I see what HisChildForever is saying. I think that too many people categorize others into the groups of "women" and "men" each with their respective characteristics that have been assigned since the beginning of time. Any deviation from that means "unwomanly" or "unmanly". Everyone is different. You know I was thinking, St. Joan of Arc was an excellent saint to use here. She was womanly. Strong, independent and a leader. She lead an army! I mean, you really can't look at blood shed in the making and not be those qualities. However, she also cried, she also had emotions, she also wanted to live a "quiet humble" life. She was soft, delicate, and feminine. She cried about the bloodshed after the fact. What an excellent example.
osapientia Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1775031' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:33 PM']Please read my post and not just the tid-bit that HCF plucked out and took out of context. [/quote] I did read the post. I only responded to the part I thought was a bit "off" in my opinion - mostly because your post generalized about "anyone who says.....they just haven't tasted" etc. I took exception to that generalization. Let me clarify further. I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post regarding the necessity and importance of Grace. Sorry - I should have included that in my previous post. Pax
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1775030' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:32 PM']me [/quote] Well you apparently are the only other one. Thanks Hassan.
picchick Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1775030' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:32 PM']me [/quote] Typical male...always wanting to be recognized.
osapientia Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1775034' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:36 PM']Thanks. I see what HisChildForever is saying. I think that too many people categorize others into the groups of "women" and "men" each with their respective characteristics that have been assigned since the beginning of time. Any deviation from that means "unwomanly" or "unmanly". Everyone is different. You know I was thinking, St. Joan of Arc was an excellent saint to use here. She was womanly. Strong, independent and a leader. She lead an army! I mean, you really can't look at blood shed in the making and not be those qualities. However, she also cried, she also had emotions, she also wanted to live a "quiet humble" life. She was soft, delicate, and feminine. She cried about the bloodshed after the fact. What an excellent example.[/quote] AND - she just happens to be my patron saint - well, one of them anyway. LOVE St. Joan - LOVE HER.
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1775034' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:36 PM']Thanks. I see what HisChildForever is saying. I think that too many people categorize others into the groups of "women" and "men" each with their respective characteristics that have been assigned since the beginning of time. Any deviation from that means "unwomanly" or "unmanly". Everyone is different.[/quote] Yeah, I see what she is saying too, however it doesn't need to be directed to me. [quote]You know I was thinking, St. Joan of Arc was an excellent saint to use here. She was womanly. Strong, independent and a leader. She lead an army! I mean, you really can't look at blood shed in the making and not be those qualities. However, she also cried, she also had emotions, she also wanted to live a "quiet humble" life. She was soft, delicate, and feminine. She cried about the bloodshed after the fact. What an excellent example.[/quote] Yeah she is a great example. All with grace... I love St. Joan of Arc.
picchick Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='osapientia' post='1775039' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:38 PM']AND - she just happens to be my patron saint - well, one of them anyway. LOVE St. Joan - LOVE HER. [/quote] Yep My confirmation saint. I have really studied her life a great deal. She is a really interesting person. I have a bunch of books on her and movies. I am a fan
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1775038' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:37 PM']Typical male...always wanting to be recognized.[/quote] Yeah, well... thats Hassan for you.
Hassan Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1775038' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:37 PM']Typical male...always wanting to be recognized.[/quote] Why am I sitting here without a sandwich? Shouldn't one you women be doing something to correct that Please don't hurt me
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1775047' date='Feb 7 2009, 03:41 PM']Why am I sitting here without a sandwich? Shouldn't one you women be doing something to correct that Please don't hurt me [/quote]
osapientia Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1775047' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:41 PM']Why am I sitting here without a sandwich? Shouldn't one you women be doing something to correct that Please don't hurt me [/quote] I don't know you Hassan - but not only am I a woman's woman...I'm an Italian woman - we LIVE TO FEED - especially men....if you can make your way over here, I got your sandwich.
Hassan Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1775046' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:41 PM']Yeah, well... thats Hassan for you. [/quote] Just tring to be supportive, that's what a marriage is all about. But yet again I'm the only one working for this marriage typical
Apotheoun Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Proverbs 31 clearly describes a good wife as hard working, resourceful, strong, etc., but the word independent does not appear in the text. Independence is a modern "virtue."
Hassan Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='osapientia' post='1775049' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:43 PM']I don't know you Hassan - but not only am I a woman's woman...I'm an Italian woman - we LIVE TO FEED - especially men....if you can make your way over here, I got your sandwich.[/quote] I love Itally O.O
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1775050' date='Feb 7 2009, 03:43 PM']Just tring to be supportive, that's what a marriage is all about. But yet again I'm the only one working for this marriage typical [/quote] If you were working at it you wouldn't be wondering to me where your sandwhich is. This kind of male chauvinism is so going to be presented at the trial.
HisChildForever Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote]You can't be both at the same time without great grace.[/quote] I believe you can be both at the same time and that it is not as difficult as you say it is. Yes, I read your post. And I stand by what I said.
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