Owner Of Muslim Relations Tv Network Beheads Wife

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1787229' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:07 AM']That's my point, Katie. You said "I thought". Why would you just make some assumption in your mind that certain points in Islamic theology were just misinterpretations by "crazies"? Being that you admitted to having no knowledge of the topic, I'm just bewildered as to why your first assumption about certain points was that "the crazies" must have it all wrong, rather than fact-checking on your own.[/quote]


Is it really that big of a deal that you have to continue to badger her over it?


Also, YouTube is generally not "fact checking".

Edited February 21, 2009 by Hassan

[mortify]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787191' date='Feb 21 2009, 03:33 AM']Do you speak Arabic? I really am not trying to trip you up or anything, I am just wondering how much you know what is or is not in the Arabic text, what is or is not implied in the text[/quote]

I'm not letting you set up your staw man

[Hassan]

[quote name='mortify' post='1787310' date='Feb 21 2009, 12:56 PM']I'm not letting you set up your staw man [/quote]

I'm not trying to argue that somehow because you don't speak Arabic you can have no oppinion on this, I am simply wondering how you know the content of the passage in the origional Qur'anic Arabic.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1787228' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:02 AM']You can search this topic on You Tube and there are plenty of clips from Arabic-language shows as well as interviews with various Islamic clerics discussing this topic. There is no translation problem. The Koran and Muslim tradition allows a husband to beat his wife. Period. Getting into hair-splitting and semantics over how hard or soft he can beat her is beside the point. He is allowed to resort to physical intimidation and physical punishment to keep her in line.[/quote]

I'm not defending the teaching-as I've said regardless of the severity of the beating a husband is allowed to give it is categorically wrong. I'm just saying that I know there is a discussion amongst some western Islamic scholars as to whether or not the word for "beat" truly means that, there are some who say the word means "to separate from" (the etymology is something like hitting to cut open a fruit that splits apart). I realize most don't take it this way, I'm saying that translation is a factor as I know from studying [i]other[/i] languages and it is possible that the original intent was misinterpreted. I don't know that it was, I'm just throwing it out there. -Katie

Edited February 21, 2009 by Tinkerlina

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1787229' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:07 AM']That's my point, Katie. You said "I thought". Why would you just make some assumption in your mind that certain points in Islamic theology were just misinterpretations by "crazies"? Being that you admitted to having no knowledge of the topic, I'm just bewildered as to why your first assumption about certain points was that "the crazies" must have it all wrong, rather than fact-checking on your own.[/quote]

Well, because I've known a few Muslims and have never seen anything to lead me to believe that wife beating was a common practice. Also, I am admittedly no great Muslim scholar but I'm not completely ignorant on the subject. We see many fundamentalists in Christianity who misinterpret teachings, so I was giving a religion I didn't have a thorough knowledge of the benefit of the doubt. I still don't know who you were referring to when you said I should listen to people who know more than me? I wasn't refusing to listen to anyone, I was saying I had learned something I previously didn't know. -Katie

Edited February 21, 2009 by Tinkerlina

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1787379' date='Feb 21 2009, 03:24 PM']Well, because I've known a few Muslims and have never seen anything to lead me to believe that wife beating was a common practice.[/quote]

For one, it is illegal in this country to physically abuse or harass one's spouse. Secondly, probably the Muslims you have known have the decency and common sense to ignore that particular Koranic mandate. Unfortunately, there are millions of Muslims elsewhere who use this mandate as a common household practice.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787262' date='Feb 21 2009, 12:01 PM']Is it really that big of a deal that you have to continue to badger her over it?


Also, YouTube is generally not "fact checking".[/quote]


Nowhere did I state that You Tube is fact-checking. People are allowed to express two different but related ideas in one paragraph, Hassan. And you're a fine one to talk about badgering people. Pot, meet kettle: you're both black.

[mortify]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787331' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:42 PM']I'm not trying to argue that somehow because you don't speak Arabic you can have no oppinion on this, I am simply wondering how you know the content of the passage in the origional Qur'anic Arabic.[/quote]

I have to rely on translators who are familiar with Quranic Arabic.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1787531' date='Feb 21 2009, 09:16 PM']Nowhere did I state that You Tube is fact-checking. People are allowed to express two different but related ideas in one paragraph, Hassan. And you're a fine one to talk about badgering people. Pot, meet kettle: you're both black.[/quote]

I didn't say one should not badger people, I simply asked if this was really something important enough that you had to badger her over it. Constantly grinding her over a mistake she made.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1787530' date='Feb 21 2009, 09:14 PM']For one, it is illegal in this country to physically abuse or harass one's spouse. Secondly, probably the Muslims you have known have the decency and common sense to ignore that particular Koranic mandate. Unfortunately, there are millions of Muslims elsewhere who use this mandate as a common household practice.[/quote]

That's horrible. Unfortunately, there are Christians who use Biblical passages to justify spousal and child abuse as well. That was formative in my original thinking; like I said, I was giving the religion which I admittedly don't know all the ins and outs of the benefit of the doubt because I often hear people bemoaning the horrible things Christians do, when in fact those Christians are crazily misinterpreting things. I am categorically against any mandate that includes violence or demaning another person; however I was trying to listen to the conversation and judge for myself how, when and by whom this mandate is interpreted since apparently not all Muslims consider it a mandate. -Katie

Edited February 22, 2009 by Tinkerlina

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787540' date='Feb 21 2009, 09:34 PM']I didn't say one should not badger people, I simply asked if this was really something important enough that you had to badger her over it. Constantly grinding her over a mistake she made.[/quote]

Maybe it's not a mistake, Hassan. Maybe the theological indifferentism by which I live is just rearing its head!!! Katie

Edited February 22, 2009 by Tinkerlina

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1782444' date='Feb 16 2009, 01:56 PM']+J.M.J.+
[url="http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/02/16/owner-muslim-relations-tv-network-beheads-wife-media-mum"]From Newsbusters:[/url]

Ironically, the network's motto was "Connecting People Through Understanding," and its mission statement:[/quote]
Egh. Talk about reinforcing a negative stereotype. And I thought the I, being a Catholic alcoholic who occasionally has a potty-mouth, was bad.

Seriously though... "But for the Grace of God there go I." I know what I am left to my own devices, and it ain't good.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1787614' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:08 PM']Egh. Talk about reinforcing a negative stereotype. And I thought the I, being a Catholic alcoholic who occasionally has a potty-mouth, was bad.[/quote]

lol, your ancestor's wern't Irish were they?

But seriously I hope you work through that. I've had some family deal with that.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1787561' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:17 PM']Maybe it's not a mistake, Hassan. Maybe the theological indifferentism by which I live is just rearing its head!!! Katie[/quote]


prolly. My secret Muslim side pops out every now and then also

Of course, I'm a pretty super duper secret Muslim seeing as I've never actually been in a Mosque

Edited February 22, 2009 by Hassan

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787668' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:44 PM']I find your decision to defend spousal abuse disturbing [/quote]
Thats funny coming from you.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1787672' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:47 PM']Thats funny coming from you.[/quote]


how so?

[Tinkerlina]

Um, Hassan I hope you were just kidding when you said I was defending spousal abuse... Katie

[Hassan]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1787702' date='Feb 22 2009, 12:07 AM']Um, Hassan I hope you were just kidding when you said I was defending spousal abuse... Katie[/quote]


of course

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787709' date='Feb 22 2009, 12:11 AM']of course [/quote]

Thank God. Sometimes I have to double check, because you know how Secret Muslims can get all cunning! -Katie

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1787676' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:49 PM']how so?[/quote]


Because you defend...or excuse (there's only a fine line between the two)...almost everything negative that Muslims do, including pedophilia and spousal abuse. But those are only a couple of things.