Somali Muslims Changing Small Town

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1818563' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:18 AM']Why are you ranting about the Jews in a thread on Somali refugees in America?[/quote]


[quote name='Luthien' post='1818595' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:58 AM']Yeah I was gonna say...[/quote]

I think he was merely pointing out that culture clash is not a specifically Islamic phenomenon. I would say that probably all refugee groups have similar problems adjusting, not only because of the trauma they have been through but just because their situation is so new to them. I personally know of Catholic refugees from Africa whose culturally-based attitudes do not match those of the modern west and so they have struggled to fit in. That doesn't mean they are wicked people who don't belong here; they are experiencing the same thing that we would if we were transplanted to a part of the world with a radically different way of life.

The key issue is [b]isolation [/b]from the wider community and culture. When a group is isolated, like ultra-orthodox Jews or Muslims, they can't be helped to integrate their culture into ours in a healthy way. That's when problems arise. Unfortunately sometimes we are so turned off by our differences that we kind of step away from these "strangers" and thus exacerbate the problem.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1818604' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:29 AM']I think he was merely pointing out[/quote]

Not interested. If Hassan or anyone else wants to rail against the Jews, start a new thread.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1818604' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:29 AM']I personally know of Catholic refugees from Africa whose culturally-based attitudes do not match those of the modern west and so they have struggled to fit in.[/quote]

After reading this article, it is safe to say that these Somali people do not WANT to fit in.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1818023' date='Mar 27 2009, 07:23 PM']How does the process work to get into the US as a refugee?
My first thought is that maybe nobody ever really explained to them how different the culture is here.[/quote]

In the US, to qualify as a refugee, the individual has to prove that returning to the country of origin would place them in real, quantifiable danger of persecution or death. That's not the textbook definition word for word, but it gets the gist across. (I did a fair amount of my graduate work on Burmese refugees.) The US definition now corresponds to the UNHCR definition of refugee and persecution. Before the mid 80s, the US gave would only extned formal refugee status and benefits to people from Soviet or Communist countries. Now, as long as the threat is believed by DHS to be credible, individuals from any country can apply for formal refugee status. Hope this explains the process, at least a little.

[cmotherofpirl]

Immigration is a two -way street.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote]"They would go into stores and haggle over prices. They would also demand to see a male salesperson, would not deal with women in stores... some Somali students won't talk to female administrators... "[/quote]


Ummmmm this pretty much describes my grandpa. I myself haggle over prices. And I prefer male doctors. (that is my preference, call me a sexist if you want.)

I don't think these Somalis thought about whether their new homes would have such a different culture. My guess is they were too desperate to care. Stay in Somalia and die or come to America and live. These small town folks don't seem too welcoming, but at least they don't have machetes.

My guess is the Somalis in this small town didn't have a clue about how to "act American." The only thing they knew was the Somali way. So they come to America and instead of people having compassion on their ignorance, they get bad mouthed in the newspaper.

This whole article smacks of childish playground antics. We don't like the new kid, he's different.

"They've had an impact here. Unfortunately, it's not been a good impact," says Brian Moseley, small fry journalist. EXCUSE me? That's a little broad of a brush, don't you think?

Imagine you've lost everything. Your home, your job, your ability to protect yourself and your children. You are totally dependent on the benevolent whim of strangers to get you through the day. All material representations of your identity have been stripped away. Would you perhaps, desire to cling to whatever remained? Like say, your culture?

These people have suffered a lot in their lives ... Jesus is present in them ... they are the most vulnerable, the people we are supposed to care for the most ... How about some patience for them? Understanding? The benefit of the doubt?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1818628' date='Mar 28 2009, 02:07 PM']Ummmmm this pretty much describes my grandpa. I myself haggle over prices. And I prefer male doctors. (that is my preference, call me a sexist if you want.)

I don't think these Somalis thought about whether their new homes would have such a different culture. My guess is they were too desperate to care. Stay in Somalia and die or come to America and live. These small town folks don't seem too welcoming, but at least they don't have machetes.

My guess is the Somalis in this small town didn't have a clue about how to "act American." The only thing they knew was the Somali way. So they come to America and instead of people having compassion on their ignorance, they get bad mouthed in the newspaper.

This whole article smacks of childish playground antics. We don't like the new kid, he's different.

"They've had an impact here. Unfortunately, it's not been a good impact," says Brian Moseley, small fry journalist. EXCUSE me? That's a little broad of a brush, don't you think?

Imagine you've lost everything. Your home, your job, your ability to protect yourself and your children. You are totally dependent on the benevolent whim of strangers to get you through the day. All material representations of your identity have been stripped away. Would you perhaps, desire to cling to whatever remained? Like say, your culture?

These people have suffered a lot in their lives ... Jesus is present in them ... they are the most vulnerable, the people we are supposed to care for the most ... How about some patience for them? Understanding? The benefit of the doubt?[/quote]
OR how about a little education on their new country and the concept of melting pot.

[desertwoman]

Shelbyville? Reminds me of the Simpsons.

But since they are isolating themselves, they can be another community just like the Amish. No one will bother them, and vice versa.

The haggling of prices is also a cultural thing, the only thing they have to do is say take the price or leave. If you cause a scene, you will be dealt with...period. Be firm, shoot...be black and say no... get the hell out of my store... and you better step to the door before I take out my .44. They would leave then.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1818631' date='Mar 28 2009, 02:16 PM']OR how about a little education on their new country and the concept of melting pot.[/quote]


That would be helpful, and really nice if someone would set up a program to do that. The article says they undergo "a few days of culture orientation" before they're shipped over here. Is that really enough? I know if you threw me into a predominantly non-Christian country, where I didn't know the language, I would need more than that before I figured out how to "play nice."

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1818608' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:50 AM']Not interested. If Hassan or anyone else wants to rail against the Jews, start a new thread.[/quote]


I'm not railing against the Jews. Now were my remarks only confined to the Jewish people, I included Catholics as well. My point was how flawed your and Rober Spencer's methodology is. Catholicism and Judaism are familiar faiths to you. Yet what if they wern't and the only information you received about them came from an individual using the same sloppy, haphazard methodology that you and Mr. Spencer like to use.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1818613' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:09 AM']After reading this article, it is safe to say that these Somali people do not WANT to fit in.[/quote]


Well sure. I mean a page long article in a paper is always the best way to get an accurate picture of the desires and motivations of an entire community.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1818563' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:18 AM']Why are you ranting about the Jews in a thread on Somali refugees in America?[/quote]


Try rereading the post. I am not ranting about "the Jews". I am not ranting at all in fact.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1818662' date='Mar 28 2009, 01:41 PM']I'm not railing against the Jews. Now were my remarks only confined to the Jewish people, I included Catholics as well. My point was how flawed your and Rober Spencer's methodology is. Catholicism and Judaism are familiar faiths to you. Yet what if they wern't and the only information you received about them came from an individual using the same sloppy, haphazard methodology that you and Mr. Spencer like to use.[/quote]


News articles really upset you, don't they?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1818637' date='Mar 28 2009, 12:25 PM']That would be helpful, and really nice if someone would set up a program to do that. The article says they undergo "a few days of culture orientation" before they're shipped over here. Is that really enough? I know if you threw me into a predominantly non-Christian country, where I didn't know the language, I would need more than that before I figured out how to "play nice."[/quote]


Yet, according to the article (and other reports of similar incidents in small towns where there are Somali Muslim populations) this is not an issue of religion. Religion is barely mentioned except to state that these Somalis are Muslim. It is an issue of refusal to respect the culture into which they have been planted. And my goodness, let us not forget that America did them a FAVOR of enormous generosity to remove them from their impoverished, wartorn, backwards country and bring them here in the first place. No gratitude for that. Only signs that they detest it here. I wonder how many people would tolerate in guest in their HOME who behaved this way. No sane person would tolerate it. They would ask their guest to change their behavior or leave.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1818619' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:40 AM']Immigration is a two -way street.[/quote]


Actually, the Somalis are not immigrants. They are refugees. That means they didn't choose to come here; our government generously gave them the opportunity to be brought here to remove them from the war and poverty they were living in. Unlike immigrants, they didn't have to wait years for a Visa to come through and years to save money to make it over here. They were brought here with no cost to them. It costs an enormous amount of resources to bring refugees over here. I am all for bringing refugees, but the fact alone that they have given this display of generosity would seem to give them more reason to act grateful. America has taken many refugees and I have never heard stories like this about other groups. I don't hear about it in the Iraqi refugee community and you never heard such stories from the Cambodian refugees we brought over in the 1970s. The Ethiopians also never behaved this way.