Somali Muslims Changing Small Town

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1818898' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:39 PM']Lounge Dady's an anarchist I believe.

I think it's kind of crazy, but at the same time I can kind of dig it [/quote]

Hehe. Why, thank you.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1818812' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:01 PM']She did not quote the whole article on the website. She quoted the page from Jihad Watch. Robert Spencer's commentary and his selection of the argument.

By your reasoning quoting a page from Mein Kamph is not at all about Adolf Hitler but only about the applicability of social Darwinism to cultural problems.


Now really, this is the last post I will make on this meta argument.[/quote]


Hassan, STOP telling lies. I posted an EXCERPT of an ARTICLE along with the link to the WHOLE ARTICLE. Yes, the first paragraph is commentary from Robert Spencer, AS I STATED. So what? There is nothing secretive here. I posted an article. But I know you have an overwhelming fear of articles, since you complain about them 50% of the times that I post them, so I can see why you are upset.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1818811' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:00 PM']No. But let's be honest. This article is not about pointing out the failings of Somalis or Muslims as individuals. That's not why this article was written and that's not why CBN put their Terrorism Analyst on the job. Wouldn't you agree? I'll give you three guesses why this piece was written.[/quote]


Maggie, why don't you knock it off with the three guesses game and just tell us what's on your mind, if that's not to much trouble for you. Personally, I think the article is about Somali Muslims causing problems in their new communities with their backward ways. So why don't you enlighten us all?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1818802' date='Mar 28 2009, 03:53 PM']What also fascinates me is why Erick Stakelbeck, CBN News [b]Terrorism Analyst[/b] wrote this article. Is Shelbyville experiencing any terrorism that needs to be analyzed? Or maybe based on the color of their skin or their religion, it's safe to say that the Somalis are planning something. Or maybe this reporter just puts "Muslim" in Google News and runs with whatever he can find. That is about the speed of CBN, which is associated with the crackpots at The 700 Club.[/quote]


Wow. Just WOW.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819024' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:12 PM']Hassan, STOP telling lies. I posted an EXCERPT of an ARTICLE along with the link to the WHOLE ARTICLE. Yes, the first paragraph is commentary from Robert Spencer, AS I STATED. So what? There is nothing secretive here. I posted an article. But I know you have an overwhelming fear of articles, since you complain about them 50% of the times that I post them, so I can see why you are upset.[/quote]

I never said what you did was dishonet at all. She claimed Robert Spencer was not part of this debate. Seeing as you quoted from his page that is not the case. I do not have a fear of articles. I've already adressed this and really don't feel like going over the same points again.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819026' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:15 PM']Wow. Just WOW.[/quote]


I agree, it's just a shame you choose to perpetuate it

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1818807' date='Mar 28 2009, 03:56 PM']So I suppose we should just ignore reports that speak ill of Somalis and all Muslims for that matter. Because there is no way a Muslim - a fellow human being - can do anything wrong. Ever.[/quote]


Well, that WOULD be the proper dhimmi attitude.

[url="http://www.dhimmi.org/"]http://www.dhimmi.org/[/url]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819032' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:18 PM']Well, that WOULD be the proper dhimmi attitude.

[url="http://www.dhimmi.org/"]http://www.dhimmi.org/[/url]

[/quote]


Lol, who has been advocating such a position here?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819028' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:16 PM']I never said what you did was dishonet at all. She claimed Robert Spencer was not part of this debate. Seeing as you quoted from his page that is not the case. I do not have a fear of articles. I've already adressed this and really don't feel like going over the same points again.[/quote]

Because Spencer posted the article on HIS website...not wrote the article himself...that makes part of this debate?? You're kidding.

And you do have issues with articles. When an article is posted that you don't like...in almost every case, the article is about Muslims or Islam in general...you make a stink about it. This has been going on for months. You even once tried to suggest that the integrity of the articles was tainted because some of them come from Spencer's website...I had to remind you repeatedly that he is only POSTING LINKS FROM OTHER NEWS SOURCES, so then you changed your tactic to where news articles can't be trusted because they must have some kind of slant or bias. Your games are very tiring.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819036' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:20 PM']Lol, who has been advocating such a position here?[/quote]


Your comprehension skills are failing again.

[homeschoolmom]

Oh for crying out loud, please stay on topic....

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1818799' date='Mar 28 2009, 03:51 PM']There are clearly [b]two[/b] perceptions - what the locals are saying and what the director of the Somali Community Center is saying. It seems to me that the director is discrediting the locals' opinions, and trying to do so in a "pleasant" way. He is basically saying that the locals are automatically wary of "strangers" or people with "a different look" - so naturally they must be unconsciously exaggerating their experiences, right? If this was an isolated incident I would definitely say that we have to remember that their are two sides, but as other posters in this thread have stated, this is not an isolated incident.[/quote]


He's trying to underhandedly accuse them of racism and bigotry. I find it WILDLY ironic that the citizens of this small town are the ones being accused of backward ways.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819040' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:23 PM']Because Spencer posted the article on HIS website...not wrote the article himself...that makes part of this debate?? You're kidding.[/quote]

He selected part of the article and wrote a short commentary of it which you posted. I have attacked his asinine methodology, the substance of which you have never responded to. That is perfectly understandable and his work is methodologically indefensible, at least if you are interested in a scientific analysis rather than propaganda.


[quote]And you do have issues with articles. When an article is posted that you don't like...in almost every case, the article is about Muslims or Islam in general...you make a stink about it. This has been going on for months. You even once tried to suggest that the integrity of the articles was tainted because some of them come from Spencer's website...I had to remind you repeatedly that he is only POSTING LINKS FROM OTHER NEWS SOURCES, so then you changed your tactic to where news articles can't be trusted because they must have some kind of slant or bias. Your games are very tiring.[/quote]


lol, I've also attacked Mr. Spencer's use of selective quoting from the articles. I have not claimed this article cannot be trusted. I'm sure every factual report it makes is absolutly true. The problem with Mr. Spencer, and you for that matter, is not your ability to take in factual data, but the ability to process it an draw logically/scientifically valid conclusions from that data.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1818797' date='Mar 28 2009, 03:51 PM']She continually quotes Spencer and things from his site. That is what I am criticising.[/quote]


Stop LYING, again. I do NOT "continually quote Robert Spencer". In fact, I RARELY quote Robert Spencer. I quoted him TWO times this week for the first time in months. For the one-thousandth time, I post NEWS ITEMS. Who cares what site they are linked from?????

Edited March 29, 2009 by Madame Vengier

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819050' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:31 PM']Stop LYING, again. I do NOT "continually quote Robert Spencer". In fact, I RARELY quote Robert Spencer. I quoted him TWO times this week for the first time in months. For the one-thousandth time, I post NEWS ITEMS. Who cares what site they are linked from?????[/quote]


You don't continue to quote Robert Spencer?

It is not your posting of news items that is, usually, the problem. It is that you usually draw, let's say to be kind, contestable conclusions from that data. It is your whole little jihad.

Now, HSM has asked this to return to topic. I've made numerous points about the problems of methodology regarding your OP which you have avoided. If you want to respond to any more of his posts I'd suggust you stick to them.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Hassan

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819047' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:29 PM']He selected part of the article and wrote a short commentary of it which you posted. I have attacked his asinine methodology, the substance of which you have never responded to. That is perfectly understandable and his work is methodologically indefensible, at least if you are interested in a scientific analysis rather than propaganda.





lol, I've also attacked Mr. Spencer's use of selective quoting from the articles. I have not claimed this article cannot be trusted. I'm sure every factual report it makes is absolutly true. The problem with Mr. Spencer, and you for that matter, is not your ability to take in factual data, but the ability to process it an draw logically/scientifically valid conclusions from that data.[/quote]

Watch your arrogance, Hassan. You, a 20 year old with two years of college should NOT be attacking people much older and more learned that you with insults such as "asinine methodoloy" (Spencer, an author of numerous books and regular lecturer with 25 years experience studying Islam and Islamic culture, has a greater edge on the topic than you are able to offer) and repeated accusations against me of "inability to process data". I really don't know who you think you are.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819054' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:36 PM']You don't continue to quote Robert Spencer?

It is not your posting of news items that is, usually, the problem. It is that you usually draw, let's say to be kind, contestable conclusions from that data. It is your whole little jihad.

Now, HSM has asked this to return to topic. I've made numerous points about the problems of methodology regarding your OP which you have avoided. If you want to respond to any more of his posts I'd suggust you stick to them.[/quote]

You are profoundly rude.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819056' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:36 PM']Watch your arrogance, Hassan. You, a 20 year old with two years of college should NOT be attacking people much older and more learned that you with insults such as "asinine methodoloy" (Spencer, an author of numerous books and regular lecturer with 25 years experience studying Islam and Islamic culture, has a greater edge on the topic than you are able to offer) and repeated accusations against me of "inability to process data". I really don't know who you think you are.[/quote]

I'm someone who usually knows poor methodology when I see it.

I don't care how much formal education I have, you have, or Mr. Spencer has. If your level of education gives you some sense of security then well done to you, personally I don't care if you have a doctorate or are a high school drop out. I am interested in the merits of your conclusions.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819059' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:38 PM']You are profoundly rude.[/quote]

Let's get back on topic.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819025' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:15 PM']Maggie, why don't you knock it off with the three guesses game and just tell us what's on your mind, if that's not to much trouble for you. Personally, I think the article is about Somali Muslims causing problems in their new communities with their backward ways. So why don't you enlighten us all?[/quote]


[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819026' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:15 PM']Wow. Just WOW.[/quote]

To spell it out... the reason I think CBN put their Terrorism Analyst on this story (which has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism) is because in many people's minds Muslim=terrorist. IOW there are no Muslims who are not evil people plotting to blow the Christians up. Shallow and ignorant but true. It's just the next stage in global jihad - inflicting socially awkward Somali refugees on the dhimmis! I can see Osama bin Laden in his cave cackling with glee even now! What a cunning plan. So clearly covering this story falls right under the job description for a Terrorism Analyst.

And I stand by my criticism of CBN... true they are not WorldNetDaily but they are not the Christian Science Monitor either.

OK. So these are Somali Muslims. Do you feel that the most important part is that they're Muslims, and that their religion is what causes them to appear to be "backward" and unable to win friends and influence people? This seems to be what you are implying, forgive me if I am wrong and you feel their behavior is the result of learned cultural attitudes and has nothing to do with their faith community.

Anyway, the problem is NOT their religion. If you have ever had dealings with refugees from Africa of ANY persuasion you will find similar problems. They don't speak the language, social expectations are much different, lifestyle patterns are completely different. Christians fleeing violence in Africa have the SAME issues, and so do refugees from many continents I would imagine (Catholic African refugees are what I myself have information on). Alienation is inevitable.

We have identified the problem. The Somalis and the locals are freaking each other out. Now, are you interested in a solution? Do you have any thoughts on a solution? Or should our approach to the problem be limited to standing away from the refugees and talking among ourselves about how weird and stupid they are? I am just wondering what your motivation for posting the article was.

The solution -which has never really been known to fail - is to have local people ENGAGE the newcomers, invite them into the community and help the community get to know them. Not only do the secular authorities regard this as desirable, as a nominally Christian society it is our duty! "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me."

Edited March 29, 2009 by Maggie