Somali Muslims Changing Small Town

[Hassan]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819122' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:16 PM']The solution -which has never really been known to fail - is to have local people ENGAGE the newcomers, invite them into the community and help the community get to know them. Not only do the secular authorities regard this as desirable, as a nominally Christian society it is our duty! "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me."[/quote]


exactly.

Doesn't mean it will work for every Somali immigrant, but most people are just people (profound, I know I'm very deep )

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819122' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:16 PM']OK. So these are Somali Muslims. Do you feel that the most important part is that they're Muslims, and that their religion is what causes them to appear to be "backward" and unable to win friends and influence people? This seems to be what you are implying, forgive me if I am wrong and you feel their behavior is the result of learned cultural attitudes and has nothing to do with their faith community.[/quote]


I'm not implying it. I'm SAYING IT. Yes. I have said it numerous times. I believe they are backwards and it is due to their religion. In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion. They are one in the same.

As to the rest of your post: pipe dreams.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819190' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:02 PM']In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion.[/quote]


What in the world does that even mean?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819202' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:10 PM']What in the world does that even mean?[/quote]


It means exactly what it says.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819203' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:12 PM']It means exactly what it says.[/quote]


Islam does not admit a distinction between culture and religion? Islam takes them to be synonyms?

Says who?

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819190' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:02 AM']I'm not implying it. I'm SAYING IT. Yes. I have said it numerous times. I believe they are backwards and it is due to their religion. In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion. They are one in the same.

As to the rest of your post: pipe dreams.[/quote]

Well, at least you are honest You'll have to forgive me for thinking that's an uneducated opinion. Welcoming the stranger is not a pipe dream... it's the Gospel...

[Maggyie]

And, just to be clear on this: You really feel that there is no solution to this problem. That community engagement can not help the refugees form relationships with locals. Why did you post this article? What is our discussion supposed to be? Is this just supposed to be an example of how horrible Muslims are?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819217' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:22 PM']And, just to be clear on this: You really feel that there is no solution to this problem. That community engagement can not help the refugees form relationships with locals. Why did you post this article? What is our discussion supposed to be? Is this just supposed to be an example of how horrible Muslims are?[/quote]

This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819225' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:27 AM']This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.[/quote]

But I really want to know! I don't mean to come off combative and if that's the case I sincerely apologize. I am just trying to understand. What were you anticipating the discussion would be w/ regard to this article? Were you just trying to stir up resentment against the Somali refugees? Get us to talk bad about them and commiserate among ourselves about how wrong they are? If not then please tell me what your objective was... Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819225' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:27 PM']This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.[/quote]


That may be it. Or it may be that deep down you know you are trying to advance an intellectually vacuous position.

I honestly don't know why you are so angry towards muslims or why you are advancing the destructive and dangerous positions you are but I hope you come out of it someday. I honestly mean that. I hope the best happens for you. That's about all I ca say on this at the moment.

[Hassan]

I mean when Maggie mentioned the Gospels she wasn't being rude. I think some people can honestly be confused how you reconcile your crusade with the Gospel's. I may not believe Jesus was divine but the content of his message is admirable and if you are going to identify yourself as a Catholic you may wish to compare what you say here with his message. I know that can come off patronising but that's not how I mean it.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819237' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:36 PM']But I really want to know! I don't mean to come off combative and if that's the case I sincerely apologize. I am just trying to understand. What were you anticipating the discussion would be w/ regard to this article? Were you just trying to stir up resentment against the Somali refugees? Get us to talk bad about them and commiserate among ourselves about how wrong they are? If not then please tell me what your objective was... Maybe I am just misunderstanding.[/quote]


THIS IS THE REASON I DON'T AND WON'T EXPAND MY THOUGHTS TO YOU.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819268' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:54 AM']THIS IS THE REASON I DON'T AND WON'T EXPAND MY THOUGHTS TO YOU.[/quote]

I'm confused.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819239' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:37 PM']That may be it. Or it may be that deep down you know you are trying to advance an intellectually vacuous position.

I honestly don't know why you are so angry towards muslims or why you are advancing the destructive and dangerous positions you are but I hope you come out of it someday. I honestly mean that. I hope the best happens for you. That's about all I ca say on this at the moment.[/quote]


Rude, rude, rude.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819272' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:56 PM']I'm confused. [/quote]

I assume Madame V is saying that because you keep insinuating that the purpose of her creating this thread is to promote negativity against Muslims.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819273' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:57 PM']Rude, rude, rude.[/quote]

No, just honest, and an attempt to put out an olive branch. Obviously it was wasted

Edited March 29, 2009 by Hassan

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1819281' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:00 PM']I assume Madame V is saying that because you keep insinuating that the purpose of her creating this thread is to promote negativity against Muslims.[/quote]


Where might she get the idea that is her goal?

I wonder....

[Hassan]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819272' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:56 PM']I'm confused. [/quote]It was a noble effort, and truely rooted in the Christian Spirit, but it may be time to just give up and let it go

[Maggyie]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1819281' date='Mar 29 2009, 01:00 AM']I assume Madame V is saying that because you keep insinuating that the purpose of her creating this thread is to promote negativity against Muslims.[/quote]

Oh. Well I can be forgiven for wondering if that is the case, surely? If not then what is the real purpose of the thread? We can safely say this was not posted to generate discussion about immigration or Somalia or Africa or black people, the focus is definitely on a particular religion and definitely on a negative view of that religion. Islam is one of Madame's particular interests and I am probably not incorrect that the "Muslim" element is what caught her eye about the story in the first place. I have a hard time discerning any motivation besides "spreading the word" about Muslims and what a loathsome unsociable group they are. But it is entirely likely I am wrong, and this is probably off topic, too, so I had better let it go.

[KnightofChrist]

Ladies and Gentle men, ill-relevant. Lets get this wagon back on the horse.