Somali Muslims Changing Small Town

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819047' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:29 PM']He selected part of the article and wrote a short commentary of it which you posted. I have attacked his asinine methodology, the substance of which you have never responded to. That is perfectly understandable and his work is methodologically indefensible, at least if you are interested in a scientific analysis rather than propaganda.





lol, I've also attacked Mr. Spencer's use of selective quoting from the articles. I have not claimed this article cannot be trusted. I'm sure every factual report it makes is absolutly true. The problem with Mr. Spencer, and you for that matter, is not your ability to take in factual data, but the ability to process it an draw logically/scientifically valid conclusions from that data.[/quote]

Watch your arrogance, Hassan. You, a 20 year old with two years of college should NOT be attacking people much older and more learned that you with insults such as "asinine methodoloy" (Spencer, an author of numerous books and regular lecturer with 25 years experience studying Islam and Islamic culture, has a greater edge on the topic than you are able to offer) and repeated accusations against me of "inability to process data". I really don't know who you think you are.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819054' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:36 PM']You don't continue to quote Robert Spencer?

It is not your posting of news items that is, usually, the problem. It is that you usually draw, let's say to be kind, contestable conclusions from that data. It is your whole little jihad.

Now, HSM has asked this to return to topic. I've made numerous points about the problems of methodology regarding your OP which you have avoided. If you want to respond to any more of his posts I'd suggust you stick to them.[/quote]

You are profoundly rude.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819056' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:36 PM']Watch your arrogance, Hassan. You, a 20 year old with two years of college should NOT be attacking people much older and more learned that you with insults such as "asinine methodoloy" (Spencer, an author of numerous books and regular lecturer with 25 years experience studying Islam and Islamic culture, has a greater edge on the topic than you are able to offer) and repeated accusations against me of "inability to process data". I really don't know who you think you are.[/quote]

I'm someone who usually knows poor methodology when I see it.

I don't care how much formal education I have, you have, or Mr. Spencer has. If your level of education gives you some sense of security then well done to you, personally I don't care if you have a doctorate or are a high school drop out. I am interested in the merits of your conclusions.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819059' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:38 PM']You are profoundly rude.[/quote]

Let's get back on topic.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819025' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:15 PM']Maggie, why don't you knock it off with the three guesses game and just tell us what's on your mind, if that's not to much trouble for you. Personally, I think the article is about Somali Muslims causing problems in their new communities with their backward ways. So why don't you enlighten us all?[/quote]


[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819026' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:15 PM']Wow. Just WOW.[/quote]

To spell it out... the reason I think CBN put their Terrorism Analyst on this story (which has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism) is because in many people's minds Muslim=terrorist. IOW there are no Muslims who are not evil people plotting to blow the Christians up. Shallow and ignorant but true. It's just the next stage in global jihad - inflicting socially awkward Somali refugees on the dhimmis! I can see Osama bin Laden in his cave cackling with glee even now! What a cunning plan. So clearly covering this story falls right under the job description for a Terrorism Analyst.

And I stand by my criticism of CBN... true they are not WorldNetDaily but they are not the Christian Science Monitor either.

OK. So these are Somali Muslims. Do you feel that the most important part is that they're Muslims, and that their religion is what causes them to appear to be "backward" and unable to win friends and influence people? This seems to be what you are implying, forgive me if I am wrong and you feel their behavior is the result of learned cultural attitudes and has nothing to do with their faith community.

Anyway, the problem is NOT their religion. If you have ever had dealings with refugees from Africa of ANY persuasion you will find similar problems. They don't speak the language, social expectations are much different, lifestyle patterns are completely different. Christians fleeing violence in Africa have the SAME issues, and so do refugees from many continents I would imagine (Catholic African refugees are what I myself have information on). Alienation is inevitable.

We have identified the problem. The Somalis and the locals are freaking each other out. Now, are you interested in a solution? Do you have any thoughts on a solution? Or should our approach to the problem be limited to standing away from the refugees and talking among ourselves about how weird and stupid they are? I am just wondering what your motivation for posting the article was.

The solution -which has never really been known to fail - is to have local people ENGAGE the newcomers, invite them into the community and help the community get to know them. Not only do the secular authorities regard this as desirable, as a nominally Christian society it is our duty! "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me."

Edited March 29, 2009 by Maggie

[Hassan]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819122' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:16 PM']The solution -which has never really been known to fail - is to have local people ENGAGE the newcomers, invite them into the community and help the community get to know them. Not only do the secular authorities regard this as desirable, as a nominally Christian society it is our duty! "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me."[/quote]


exactly.

Doesn't mean it will work for every Somali immigrant, but most people are just people (profound, I know I'm very deep )

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819122' date='Mar 28 2009, 09:16 PM']OK. So these are Somali Muslims. Do you feel that the most important part is that they're Muslims, and that their religion is what causes them to appear to be "backward" and unable to win friends and influence people? This seems to be what you are implying, forgive me if I am wrong and you feel their behavior is the result of learned cultural attitudes and has nothing to do with their faith community.[/quote]


I'm not implying it. I'm SAYING IT. Yes. I have said it numerous times. I believe they are backwards and it is due to their religion. In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion. They are one in the same.

As to the rest of your post: pipe dreams.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819190' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:02 PM']In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion.[/quote]


What in the world does that even mean?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819202' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:10 PM']What in the world does that even mean?[/quote]


It means exactly what it says.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819203' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:12 PM']It means exactly what it says.[/quote]


Islam does not admit a distinction between culture and religion? Islam takes them to be synonyms?

Says who?

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819190' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:02 AM']I'm not implying it. I'm SAYING IT. Yes. I have said it numerous times. I believe they are backwards and it is due to their religion. In Islam there is no differentiation between culture and religion. They are one in the same.

As to the rest of your post: pipe dreams.[/quote]

Well, at least you are honest You'll have to forgive me for thinking that's an uneducated opinion. Welcoming the stranger is not a pipe dream... it's the Gospel...

[Maggyie]

And, just to be clear on this: You really feel that there is no solution to this problem. That community engagement can not help the refugees form relationships with locals. Why did you post this article? What is our discussion supposed to be? Is this just supposed to be an example of how horrible Muslims are?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1819217' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:22 PM']And, just to be clear on this: You really feel that there is no solution to this problem. That community engagement can not help the refugees form relationships with locals. Why did you post this article? What is our discussion supposed to be? Is this just supposed to be an example of how horrible Muslims are?[/quote]

This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819225' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:27 AM']This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.[/quote]

But I really want to know! I don't mean to come off combative and if that's the case I sincerely apologize. I am just trying to understand. What were you anticipating the discussion would be w/ regard to this article? Were you just trying to stir up resentment against the Somali refugees? Get us to talk bad about them and commiserate among ourselves about how wrong they are? If not then please tell me what your objective was... Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1819225' date='Mar 28 2009, 11:27 PM']This is the reason I don't and won't expand on my thoughts with you.[/quote]


That may be it. Or it may be that deep down you know you are trying to advance an intellectually vacuous position.

I honestly don't know why you are so angry towards muslims or why you are advancing the destructive and dangerous positions you are but I hope you come out of it someday. I honestly mean that. I hope the best happens for you. That's about all I ca say on this at the moment.