Did Jesus Want An Organize Religion

[princessgianna]

Please feel free to discuss and share.

God Bless
PG

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1848560' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:39 AM']Please feel free to discuss and share.

God Bless
PG[/quote]

He sure did.

Fathers and mothers sharing the stories of God and what God has done in history and their own personal lives to their children, who pass those stories to their children, who pass those stories to their children, ect, ect, ect. . .

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848564' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:41 AM']He sure did.

Fathers and mothers sharing the stories of God and what God has done in history and their own personal lives to their children, who pass those stories to their children, who pass those stories to their children, ect, ect, ect. . .[/quote]

That's not organized.


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[CatherineM]

If he hadn't wanted organized religion, he wouldn't have founded a church.

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848575' date='Apr 25 2009, 11:45 PM']I tend to avoid all these kinds of debate, as it always seems to me it ends up being one person trying to prove the other person is wrong, and there is very little Christian Charity in them, so why debate, if all it does is tear each other down?[/quote]

IOW,

I am very comfortable in where I am in the Lord right now, and I don't want to engage in something that will only upset all parties involved, because what unity would that produce between us.

Lets stick to, we all believe in Jesus, and we are trying to live up to his example of living his life utterly for all of us.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Kurall_Creator

[princessgianna]

If you hold the Truth why are won't you discuss it here?

I am trying to keep things in the right board please in order to avoid confusion.

Please respect that.

Pax
PG

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1848582' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:51 AM']If you hold the Truth why are won't you discuss it here?

I am trying to keep things in the right board please in order to avoid confusion.

Please respect that.

Pax
PG[/quote]

Who said that.

Why would I want to be a dictator, telling you how to live your lives, because I 'held the truth'.

I love Jesus, you love Jesus, most people here love Jesus, and that's enough for me to call you brothers and sisters in Christ.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848575' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:45 AM']Cool, and yes you are right that I do want as much as what Christ wanted to give me.

I tend to avoid all these kinds of debate, as it always seems to me it ends up being one person trying to prove the other person is wrong, and there is very little Christian Charity in them, so why debate, if all it does is tear each other down?[/quote]


We debate to defend and seek the truth. Avoiding debate is avoiding the truth. Now, when things go south, you stop debating. I've learned how to debate respectively and I have stopped debating with people once I realize they are not listening to me and it is apparent there is nothing fruitful to gain and only hate to breed.

However, there is nothing wrong with debating when both people are charitable and respectful and this helps us decide what is right and what is not.

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[SaintOlaf]

Kurall, If you'd like we can continue the conversation that was started in the other thread in private messages. I don't want you to feel as if you're being ganged up on, or pressured into something you don't want to get into.

As it is I've stayed up an hour too late, so I'll look in on this tomorrow at some point.

[Kurall_Creator]

Like I said, I am comfortable in the spirit where I am right now.

So instead of debating anybody, which usually turns south for me in conversations in this topic, lets just accept that not all people here are here to sway other people's opinions.

The only real 'truth' I know is that to live is to be like Christ, and that it is not I who live, but Christ who lives through me.

I'd rather be like a Catholic when I hang around Catholics, looking at what we have in common, instead of looking for what is different about us.

Paul warned us against this kind of religion. How many times does an Epistle of Paul talk about how people were bewitched from the simplicity of Christ by people who said you have to do this and that, looking at what was different between what the believers believed, and what they believed? How many times do we have to read those parts to realize that we shouldn't look at how other Christ followers do things differently, and tell them to do what we do?

Sure, there is that kind of both sides, and I say the same thing to them. Don't tear down other brothers and sisters.

The reason, ultimately, is because Jesus said everybody (including atheists) would know we are the children of God through our love for one another!

Edited April 26, 2009 by Kurall_Creator

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1848602' date='Apr 26 2009, 01:11 AM']So there is no absolute truth? Obama is a Christian. He believes abortion is okay. Yet many Christians say abortion is wrong. Who is wrong? Who is right? Why? It can't be both wrong and right.

Sorry you don't want to continue. If you would like to explain to me how all Christians can be on the same side, I would like to hear it as I don't see how that is possible.[/quote]

A Christian is not determine by what someone says on a TV screen to the media, but through his actions. Christians ultimately know that God is the creator of all life, and as a result, all life is precious in his/her mind and heart, and he does what he can to protect all the life around him, to give utterly of himself for the protection of all mankind, because he doesn't want one person to perish, but all to come to repentance.

It is not so much knowledge of doctrine that defines a Christian, but through his spirit.

So, yes, Obama fails, because protecting all mankind is not high on his priorities. He thinks its okay to murder babies in the womb, so he fails, miserably.

Again, this doesn't come from understanding of a religion, but through the holy spirit, and my hatred of evil. Any person who also professes Christ is Lord, and is God, and says that abortion is evil as it is endangering the human race is my brother and sister.

So, I hope that answers your questions. . .

[Slappo]

Well as Catholics we believe a Christian is one who is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1848621' date='Apr 26 2009, 01:42 AM']Well as Catholics we believe a Christian is one who is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

Cool!

[dUSt]

Without organized religion, you would not know Jesus.
Without organized religion, we would have no Bible.

But back to the original question.

Yes, Jesus wanted an organized religion. Why? For the same reason he has an organized universe, with organized galaxies, and organized solar systems, with organized planets, with organized ecosystems, that contain organized living organisms.

God is organized, and we are made in the image and likeness of Him. We are an organized species, and organization is vital to our existence.

[b]Un-[/b]organized religion is what defies our very nature as God's creations.

[Angel*Star]

If all Christians are on the same side, then why do Christians tell the congregation from the altar that all Catholics are going to hell? Then why do Christians try to "save" me, just because I am Catholic? Most of these people have no idea what the Catholic Church stands for. They are going on here say or what they have heard from their church.

From what authority are you stating these? As Catholics we have Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition to go to. We can discuss these things from years of studying history. It is not something we have just made up. The Catholic Church never changes.

In the 1930's not one single Christian Church accepted contraception. Today, only the Catholic Church tells us to be open to life. They are not saying "have as many babies as possible and fill the world with little Catholics." No, rather the Catholic Church reminds us God had told us throughout the whole bible that children are a gift from God. We are also reminded that God will provide. So, at what point did Christian churches deviate from that teaching and why? On what authority did they change such a fundamental thing? Even Martin Luther did not accept contraception. In fact, he thought it was worse than incest or adultry!

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1848622' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:44 AM']If all Christians are on the same side, then why do Christians tell the congregation from the altar that all Catholics are going to hell? Then why do Christians try to "save" me, just because I am Catholic? Most of these people have no idea what the Catholic Church stands for. They are going on here say or what they have heard from their church.[/quote]

A form of control to prevent their Flocks from leaving them. For most, it is their source of income, and they are in it more for the money than spreading truth. This serves to promote fear in those who might choose to go Catholic, and at the same time, artificially boost others self-esteem because they think they are better than Catholics.

Sorry for you being hurt by it.

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1848622' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:44 AM']From what authority are you stating these? As Catholics we have Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition to go to. We can discuss these things from years of studying history. It is not something we have just made up. The Catholic Church never changes.[/quote]

Sheesh, who said I was an authority, or had any authority. Relax. Like I said before, I don't like debating, as it always leads to someone who gets upset and feels like they are beaing torn down. I am sorry for you being upset for me posting, and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for even saying anything.

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1848622' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:44 AM']In the 1930's not one single Christian Church accepted contraception. Today, only the Catholic Church tells us to be open to life. They are not saying "have as many babies as possible and fill the world with little Catholics." No, rather the Catholic Church reminds us God had told us throughout the whole bible that children are a gift from God. We are also reminded that God will provide. So, at what point did Christian churches deviate from that teaching and why? On what authority did they change such a fundamental thing? Even Martin Luther did not accept contraception. In fact, he thought it was worse than incest or adultry![/quote]

Again, the holy spirit leads and directs people. We can all know God's law because it is written in our hearts. I can quote the scriptures if you want me too, but every Christ follower can know the difference between truths and lies, and respond temparately to those.

Again, I am sorry for upsetting you with my posts.

Peace.

I love you, and so does Jesus.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848628' date='Apr 25 2009, 09:56 PM']Again, the holy spirit leads and directs people. We can all know God's law because it is written in our hearts. I can quote the scriptures if you want me too, but every Christ follower can know the difference between truths and lies, and respond temparately to those.[/quote]

My question would be, if it is the Holy Spirit that leads and directs people and the Holy Spirit alone (or any of the other persons of the trinity), then who is right when one person claims the Holy Spirit lead him to one thing, and another claims it lead him to another. What about when you have 30,000 people all claiming the Holy Spirit lead them to what they believe but all of their beliefs are very different. The same goes for interpretations of the texts of Scripture.

To say "Well I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe" is relativism and it denies that one of the two people (or 30,000) is wrong. The Holy Spirit cannot lead people to truths that contradict each other.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848628' date='Apr 26 2009, 01:56 AM']Again, the holy spirit leads and directs people. We can all know God's law because it is written in our hearts. I can quote the scriptures if you want me too, but every Christ follower can know the difference between truths and lies, and respond temperately to those.[/quote]
You keep referencing things like "the Holy Spirit" and "God's law" and "scripture".

I want to know why you believe in such things, as they are all products of an organized religion.

[Kurall_Creator]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1848625' date='Apr 26 2009, 12:49 AM']Without organized religion, you would not know Jesus.
Without organized religion, we would have no Bible.

But back to the original question.

Yes, Jesus wanted an organized religion. Why? For the same reason he has an organized universe, with organized galaxies, and organized solar systems, with organized planets, with organized ecosystems, that contain organized living organisms.

God is organized, and we are made in the image and likeness of Him. We are an organized species, and organization is vital to our existence.

[b]Un-[/b]organized religion is what defies our very nature as God's creations.[/quote]

Hey, did I ever say we didn't need organization?

I think we need some kind of structure in our lives, guides, rules, goals and focus in our life.

But we need as little outside interference as possible if we are to grow to be what God intends us to be.

Think about how many children get guilt tripped by they're parents to doing everything they want. Entire generations of children are told what professions to go into. How rabid do parents get to have the next Wayne Grexeky, Arnold Swartzenneger, or Britney Spears?

The less outside interference, the better humanity is to begin with. It is when you no longer listen to all the guilt we live with through what our national leaders, TV leaders, Corporate leaders, religious leaders, and parents instill into us that we can transend all of that and start living out our own destinies in God, each being unique on their own, to the glory of God the father.

So, yes, I am not against organized religion, as long as it isn't all about fear, but exploring who Jesus Christ is, and living out our unique destinies to learn what it means to be who we are in him!

Debate over.

BTW, I specifically asked the person who started this thread not to, because I don't like this kind of debate, because it always ends up being one person saying, my religion is doctrinally superior to all others, so you better do what I say.

I don't want to tear anybody apart for their beliefs, and I am here to share what God has blessed me with than to say, 'I am right and you are wrong', and engage in this kind of debate. And, I don't need guilt trips in my life, and I would rather use my brain to think about my next animation and next story to tell, then thinking about people's opinions about my religious choices that I have made because I would rather explore the life Jesus wants for me, to learn of his sufferings and his grace!

Edited April 26, 2009 by Kurall_Creator

[Angel*Star]

[quote name='Kurall_Creator' post='1848636' date='Apr 26 2009, 02:09 AM']The less outside interference, the better humanity is to begin with. It is when you no longer listen to all the guilt we live with through what our national leaders, TV leaders, Corporate leaders, religious leaders, and parents instill into us that we can transend all of that and start living out our own destinies in God, each being unique on their own, to the glory of God the father.[/quote]
So, as a parent I should let my children decide if they do drugs or not. I should let them decide if they go to school or not. I let them decide if they steal or not. We as parents have an obligation to help form our children's conscience. They need a little guilt, if that is what you want to call it. We all need to know what is right or wrong. And things are right and wrong. There is no middle ground in most cases.

If you don't like to debate these type of things, why are you on Phatmass? And why did you respond in the beginning. The person who started this thread was trying to get some advice on how to handle a certain situation in her life. She is trying to learn the truth and how to respond to people who try to steer her wrong.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Angel*Star