Ziggamafu Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1865904' date='May 13 2009, 07:07 AM']nevermind.[/quote] Ninja edit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865899' date='May 13 2009, 07:51 AM']Indeed, the Charismatics sound all too much like Protestants[/quote] Why do you make it sound like Protestants dont have Christ in their lives ? There are alot of Protestants who are closer to Jesus then Catholics. Just becuase one isn't cathoilc doesn't mean they can't have different gifts from God. There are alot of catholics who honor Jesus with their lips and that is it. How many cathoilcs go to confession before Eucharist ? Why when polls are taken so many cathoilcs find no problem with premarital sex and stuff of that nature ? It seems like alot of catholics lack a personal relationship with Jesus and the truth that is given by Him in spirit. Remember Jesus says his words are spirt. Flesh profits a man nothing. Jesus is to be worshiped in spirit. I think attacking the Charismatic movement is not cool espically when recent Popes have approved it. Saintwannabe777 said him and his family have experineced the gifts of the charismatic movement frist hand. So are him and his family liars ? Edited May 13, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865906' date='May 13 2009, 08:10 AM']Ninja edit!!! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote]Corinthian Abuses (I Corinthians 14 passim).—Medieval and modern writers wrongly take it for granted that the charism existed permanently at Corinth — as it did nowhere else—and that St. Paul, in commending the gift to the Corinthians, therewith gave his guaranty that the characteristics of Corinthian glossolaly were those of the gift itself. Traditional writers in overlooking this point place St. Luke at variance with St. Paul, and attribute to the charism properties so contrary as to make it inexplicable and prohibitively mysterious. There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of "tongues" a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). What today purports to be the "gift of tongues" at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle's counsel to do all things "decently, and according to order" (40). Faithful adherence to the text of Sacred Scripture makes it obligatory to reject those opinions which turn the charism of tongues into little more than infantile babbling (Eichhorn, Schmidt, Neander), incoherent exclamations (Meyer), pythonic utterances (Wiseler), or prophetic demonstrations of the archaic kind (see 1 Samuel 19:20, 24). The unalloyed charism was as much an exercise of the intelligence as of the emotions. Languages or dialects, now kainais (Mark 16:17) for their present purpose, and now spontaneously borrowed by the conservative Hebrew from Gentile foreigners (eteroglossois, cheilesin eteron, 1 Corinthians 14:21), were used as never before. But they were understood even by those who used them. Most Latin commentators have believed the contrary, but the ancient Greeks, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Theodoret, and others who were nearer the scene, agree to it and the testimony of the texts as above studied seems to bear them out. -Catholic Encyclopedia [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm[/url][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1865908' date='May 13 2009, 07:14 AM']Why do you make it sound like Protestants dont have Christ in their lives ? There are alot of Protestants who are closer to Jesus then Catholics. Just becuase one isn't cathoilc doesn't mean they can't have different gifts from God. There are alot of catholics who honor Jesus with their lips and that is it. How many cathoilcs go to confession before Eucharist ? Why when polls are taken so many cathoilcs find no problem with premarital sex and stuff of that nature ? It seems like alot of catholics lack a personal relationship with Jesus and the truth that is given by Him in spirit. Remember Jesus says his words are spirt. Flesh profits a man nothing. Jesus is to be worshiped in spirit. I think attacking the Charismatic movement is not cool espically when recent Popes have approved it. Saintwannabe777 said him and his family have experineced the gifts of this first hand. So is he a liar ?[/quote] I neither said nor implied that Protestants do not have Christ in their lives; I inferred that it is typical of Protestant thinking to overlook a gap of well over a thousand years in order to justify a belief that, for the sake of novel interpretations of Scripture, breaks from Tradition. As for Saintwannabe's experiences, it would be absurd to say that incoherent glossolalia does not occur; I have said nothing to that effect. I merely maintain that such occurrences seem to have their best explanation in human / psychological origins. I am not among those who decry Neo-Charismaticism as being diabolical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865912' date='May 13 2009, 08:22 AM']As for Saintwannabe's experiences, it would be absurd to say that incoherent glossolalia does not occur; I have said nothing to that effect. I merely maintain that such occurrences seem to have their best explanation in human / psychological origins. I am not among those who decry Neo-Charismaticism as being diabolical.[/quote] lol I have no idea what any of this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865912' date='May 13 2009, 07:22 AM']As for Saintwannabe's experiences, it would be absurd to say that incoherent glossolalia does not occur; I have said nothing to that effect. I merely maintain that such occurrences seem to have their best explanation in human / psychological origins. I am not among those who decry Neo-Charismaticism as being diabolical.[/quote] And I dont think tounges was what saintwannabe777 was talking about. And it seems in this post you again insult. Mabey I'm reading it wrong. From what I know saintwannabe777 experience has nothing to do with "incoherent glossolalia". He had a vision and encountered our Lord. Sorry saintwannabe777 if you didnt want me to share it although I remember seeing you post it before. Alright peace. Edited May 13, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I associate Neo-Charismaticism with tongues because tongues is the predominant indicator of the movement. The phenomenon of incoherent glossolalia seems to be the primary feature / indicator of a "Charismatic". I'm not typically a fan of Sungenis, but he has a decent article on the subject that is so well researched (though I don't know that I agree with all of his conclusions) that it certainly deserves to be read straight through: [url="http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/speaking-tongues1.htm"]http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/ar...ng-tongues1.htm[/url] The conclusion is chilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865919' date='May 13 2009, 07:38 AM']I associate Neo-Charismaticism with tongues because tongues is the predominant indicator of the movement. The phenomenon of incoherent glossolalia seems to be the primary feature / indicator of a "Charismatic". I'm not typically a fan of Sungenis, but he has a decent article on the subject that is so well researched (though I don't know that I agree with all of his conclusions) that it certainly deserves to be read straight through: [url="http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/speaking-tongues1.htm"]http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/ar...ng-tongues1.htm[/url] The conclusion is chilling.[/quote] You act as if were only talking about tounges. I'm not even talking about tounges. Thanks for the link I will check it out. Godbless bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1865916' date='May 13 2009, 07:32 AM']And I dont think tounges was what saintwannabe777 was talking about. And it seems in this post you again insult. Mabey I'm reading it wrong. From what I know saintwannabe777 experience has nothing to do with "incoherent glossolalia". He had a vision and encountered our Lord. Sorry saintwannabe777 if you didnt want me to share it although I remember seeing you post it before. Alright peace.[/quote] Visions are another matter entirely. There is no break from Tradition, there; visions have been a continual experience of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1865922' date='May 13 2009, 07:41 AM']Visions are another matter entirely. There is no break from Tradition, there; visions have been a continual experience of the Church.[/quote] Gotcha ! I to find tounges pretty weird and dont see the use of them if you can't understand what one is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Zig, you're a cool dude and I admire you, but what I don't understand is how you can wave the Charismatic movement and tongues away as an invention of the mind, JPII was present while people prayed in tongues if you don't believe me, watch this video [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1865916' date='May 13 2009, 08:32 AM']And I dont think tounges was what saintwannabe777 was talking about. And it seems in this post you again insult. Mabey I'm reading it wrong. From what I know saintwannabe777 experience has nothing to do with "incoherent glossolalia". He had a vision and encountered our Lord. Sorry saintwannabe777 if you didnt want me to share it although I remember seeing you post it before. Alright peace.[/quote] Nah I'm not mad my bro. Don't worry bout it. And Zig, my dude, my bro in Christ, hear me out.The gift of tongues is the most common gift but it is the least of all the gifts. Tongues is a stepping stone, it helps you to reach other Charismatic gifts. Go to this site [url="http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics/more/charismatic-gifts_4all.htm"]http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics...-gifts_4all.htm[/url] Listen to this [url="http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics/more/holy-spirit_lecture.htm"]http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics...rit_lecture.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 The charismatic movement is filled with mundane liturgies and over-emotional weirdness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1866525' date='May 13 2009, 08:57 PM']The charismatic movement is filled with mundane liturgies and over-emotional weirdness.[/quote] Ressurexi, you're my boy, but I feel that is offensive and I think you a lot of people an apology. I realize it might not be a traditional mass and you might not feel comfortable but Pope Paul VI, JPII and Papa Benny have approved it. I don't get y people still attack it. Are there fanatics and over emotional people? Yes? Are they in every church movement? Yes! So, while I realize it may not be your cup of tea, I will sincerely tell you that an African Charismatic probably has the faith that exceeds yours and mine combined. I don't know y Charismatics and Traditionals can't get along without dissing each other. We all worship the Lamb!!! Edited May 14, 2009 by saintwannabe 777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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