Charismatic Catholics

[RezaMikhaeil]

You have yet to prove that Theresa of Avila spoke in tongues. I read your quotes in the past and there was no clear evidence of that.

Reza

[Guest]

No love.....it's sad man.....condemnation condemnation condemnation.........It reallly does make me sad........I would love to hear what Jesus has to say about this....Its a trip....lol

Edited May 14, 2009 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1866644' date='May 13 2009, 11:04 PM']Alright, but did you see what I posted? You made a statement and I have evidence that contradicts it from JP the Great[/quote]

That post was directed to D.B.

[saintwannabe 777]

On a more well-documented note, St. Teresa of Avila, a doctor of the Church is especially noted for her contributions on the theology of prayer. (Doctor of the Church is essentially the highest status one can get, one must first be canonized as a saint and then be shown to be a saint of universal merit to the Church as a teacher.) In her classic work on prayer, "Interior Castle" (written essentially to codify her work so her detractors could examine it more closely), in Chapter 6 of the 6th mansion she speaks about "a strange kind of prayer, the nature of which one cannot ascertain," going on to say that even though they do not understand what they are saying at the time, they are filled with joy and love for God. In context, it seems pretty clear to me (and to others) she is talking about speaking in tongues.

[Guest]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1866686' date='May 13 2009, 11:24 PM']That post was directed to D.B.[/quote]

Dude your selfrighteous attitude towards saintwannabe777 was more then I could handle tonight. There was no love there at all bro. And on top of that you made him out to be a liar. I have no respect for that.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1866686' date='May 13 2009, 11:24 PM']That post was directed to D.B.[/quote]

Did you even read the documents I posted? Look at the words JP the Great uses to describe the movement? You are ignoring them

Pope John Paul II
To Catholic Charismatics
Seek to be active in life of your local Church
Pope John Paul II, November 9, 1996
Dear Friends in Christ,

1. With affection in the Lord I greet the participants in the Seventh International Meeting of the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities and Fellowships. I thank you for your good wishes and prayers at this time when I am celebrating the 50th Anniversary of my priestly ordination. I see this as an expression of the communion which links you with the Successor of Peter and the universal Church, a communion which you feel deeply and which itself is a sublime gift of the Holy Spirit to Christ's followers.

You represent communities of the Charismatic Movement from around the world, which, in their variety, bear witness to the spiritual gifts which the Holy Spirit is bestowing on the Church even in our own day (cf. Christifideles laici, n. 24). How can we fail to praise God for the abundant fruit which in recent decades the Renewal in the Spirit has brought about in the lives of individuals and in communities? Countless people have come to appreciate the importance of Sacred Scripture for Christian living they have acquired a new sense of the value of prayer and a profound yearning for holiness, many have returned to the sacraments, and a great number of men and women have achieved a deeper understanding of their baptismal call, and have committed themselves to the Church's mission with admirable dedication. In thanking God for all of this, I repeat the words which I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio: "As the third millennium of the Redemption draws near, God is preparing a great springtime for Christianity, and we can already see its first signs" (n. 86).

[saintwannabe 777]

"In the midst of these experiences that are both painful and delightful together, our Lord sometimes gives the soul feelings of jubilation and a strange prayer it doesn’t understand. What I’m saying seems like gibberish, but certainly the experience takes place in this way, for the joy is so excessive the soul wouldn’t want to enjoy it alone but wants to tell everyone about it so that they might help this soul praise our Lord. All its activity is directed to this praise. Oh, how many festivals and demonstrations of the soul would organize, if it could, that all might know its joy! . . . The devil cannot give this experience, because there is so much interior joy in the very intimate part of the soul and so much peace; and all the happiness stirs the soul to the praises of God.

Oh, what blessed madness, Sisters! If only God would give it to us all. And what a favor He has granted you by bringing you to this house where, when the Lord gives you this favor and you tell others about it, you will receive help rather than the criticism you would receive in the world.

Sometimes it is a particular joy for me to see these Sisters gathered together and feeling such great joy at being in the monastery that they praise our Lord as much as possible. It is seen very clearly that their praises rise from the interior of the soul. I would want you to praise Him often, Sisters; for the one who begins, awakens the others. In what better way can you, when together, use your tongues than in the praises of God since we have so many reasons for praising Him?

May it please His Majesty to give us this prayer often since it is so safe and beneficial; to acquire it is impossible because it is something very supernatural. And it may last a whole day. The soul goes about like a person who has drunk a great deal but not so much as to be drawn out of his senses. " [url="http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics/more/tongues-described.htm"]http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics...s-described.htm[/url]

From the Interior Castle.

God Bless Reza

Edited May 14, 2009 by saintwannabe 777

[KnightofChrist]

Did you miss post 79? Maybe wasn't long after that, that a new page was made. I stated...

"To my knowledge" it had not been approved. That is not a attack. I knew that the Vatican had given recognition to the moments existence, but not the approval of the movement."

Maybe I need to reword it so I'm not seen as a big ol meany.

I did not know it had been approved. I never saw before evidence of it. I knew the Holy See had acknowledged the group's existence but I did not know that the group had been given approval.

But again approval of the Group is not approval of it's liturgical practices.

I dont know if you believe it, D.B. clearly doesnt, but I have shown charity to you both. Because I question many of the groups actions and wish to have a civil debate about it does not make me uncharitable. May we have a debate about the debate and not of each other and remember being civil and charitable does not mean we will agree?


[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1866691' date='May 13 2009, 11:27 PM']Did you even read the documents I posted? Look at the words JP the Great uses to describe the movement? You are ignoring them

Pope John Paul II
To Catholic Charismatics
Seek to be active in life of your local Church
Pope John Paul II, November 9, 1996
Dear Friends in Christ,

1. With affection in the Lord I greet the participants in the Seventh International Meeting of the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities and Fellowships. I thank you for your good wishes and prayers at this time when I am celebrating the 50th Anniversary of my priestly ordination. I see this as an expression of the communion which links you with the Successor of Peter and the universal Church, a communion which you feel deeply and which itself is a sublime gift of the Holy Spirit to Christ's followers.

You represent communities of the Charismatic Movement from around the world, which, in their variety, bear witness to the spiritual gifts which the Holy Spirit is bestowing on the Church even in our own day (cf. Christifideles laici, n. 24). How can we fail to praise God for the abundant fruit which in recent decades the Renewal in the Spirit has brought about in the lives of individuals and in communities? Countless people have come to appreciate the importance of Sacred Scripture for Christian living they have acquired a new sense of the value of prayer and a profound yearning for holiness, many have returned to the sacraments, and a great number of men and women have achieved a deeper understanding of their baptismal call, and have committed themselves to the Church's mission with admirable dedication. In thanking God for all of this, I repeat the words which I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio: "As the third millennium of the Redemption draws near, God is preparing a great springtime for Christianity, and we can already see its first signs" (n. 86).[/quote]

Edited May 14, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1866713' date='May 13 2009, 11:45 PM']Did you miss post 79? Maybe wasn't long after that, that a new page was made. I stated...

"To my knowledge" it had not been approved. That is not a attack. I knew that the Vatican had given recognition to the moments existence, but not the approval of the movement."

Maybe I need to reword it so I'm not seen as a big ol meany.

I did not know it had been approved. I never saw before evidence of it. I knew the Holy See had acknowledged the group's existence but I did not know that the group had been given approval.

But again approval of the Group is not approval of it's liturgical practices.

You may not believe it, as D.B does, but I have shown charity to you both. Because I question many of the groups actions and wish to have a civil debate about it does not make me uncharitable. May we have a debate about the debate and not of each other and remember being civil and charitable does not mean we will agree?[/quote]

Okay my bro, this is different than what I thought you were saying before. I thought you were denying the Church's approval of this movement on purpose. I apologize.

[RezaMikhaeil]

Even after reading her writing in the full context, I don't see it as you do. I can see that Charismatics would take this to try and prove their point, just as they do with 1 Corinthians 14:2 but I don't think that's the context. Don't let me stop you thou...

Here's the full article: [url="http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/stteresa/castle/interiorcastle4.cfm#CHAPTER%20VI/6"]http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/cath...#CHAPTER%20VI/6[/url]

I'm still anticipating your response to St. Paul's writings that tongues are for non believers and prophesy are for believers...and of course knight of Christ's response to your posts, if he returns.

Reza

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1866721' date='May 13 2009, 11:48 PM']Even after reading her writing in the full context, I don't see it as you do. I can see that Charismatics would take this to try and prove their point, just as they do with 1 Corinthians 14:2 but I don't think that's the context. Don't let me stop you thou...

Here's the full article: [url="http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/stteresa/castle/interiorcastle4.cfm#CHAPTER%20VI/6"]http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/cath...#CHAPTER%20VI/6[/url]

I'm still anticipating your response to St. Paul's writings that tongues are for non believers and prophesy are for believers...and of course knight of Christ's response to your posts, if he returns.

Reza[/quote]

Honestly Reza for your St. Paul writings, I have to admit, that's got me stumped. But as for Theresa of Avila, I can't see how you don't think she's referring to tongues. But what do you think of St. Padre Pio, one of the most revered Catholic saints.

Edited May 14, 2009 by saintwannabe 777