Praying Over Someone

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 11:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote]

Ok. Think whatever you want.

[Resurrexi]

It was absolutely necessary to say that three times, wasn't it?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1868177' date='May 15 2009, 05:31 PM']Are you serious??? You know what guys. A lot of you on this site continue to insult people like me. Honestly, do it. Continue to do it. I will pray for you.[/quote]

You are taking things far to personally. There is such a thing as debating ideas. This is such a debate, it is not a debate or throwing insults around about people.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868346' date='May 15 2009, 11:15 PM']It was absolutely necessary to say that three times, wasn't it? [/quote]

I didn't mean to Finally, I've laughed.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 08:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote]

This was my point! Charismatics use scriptures like that to prove their movement, yet what's interesting is that is the same scripture that we use in regards to the sacrament of baptism. Charismatic Catholics use it to imply both, but it can't be both... it's either one or the other.

Reza

[HisChildForever]

If we want to unify all Christians, we first have to start with ourselves.

[picchick]

You know what...maybe there isn't any theological and liturgical basis. But there is something to be said for human touch.

There is nothing sinful, nothing bad, nothing negative that comes from praying over someone. If anything there is something that will bring a person closer to God.

I have seen people pray over another person in a great time of need. What is the difference if we say "I will pray for you." and "Let me pray over you." "let me pray with you." Nothing. Except maybe the fact that my hand is on their shoulder. Again, what is more comforting than human touch?

When I pray for someone, I usually say, "Lord, please look over so and so. Please keep them in their love." If I pray over someone which is rare but I still do it once in a while it is the same prayer. Only I am holding them. Nothing wrong with that.
Meg

Edited May 16, 2009 by picchick

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1868151' date='May 15 2009, 06:54 PM']Good question Resurrexi! But I am sure that you already know where this new practice originates.

[/quote]
So you think people praying over a sick person is a new thing?

[Resurrexi]

Praying over a sick person is a Sacrament. And guess who are the only ones who can do it validly? Priests.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Resurrexi

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868638' date='May 16 2009, 11:32 AM']Praying over a sick person is a Sacrament. And guess who are the only ones who can do it validly? Priests.[/quote]
Somehow I don't recall that on the list of seven sacraments

[RezaMikhaeil]

The annointing of the sick, issued by a priest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1868644' date='May 16 2009, 10:56 AM']Somehow I don't recall that on the list of seven sacraments [/quote]

The only instance in the entire Bible of "to pray over" is found in the James 5:14-15 where the Sacrament of Extreme Unction was "recommended to the faithful and promulgated by James the Apostle and brother of the Lord." (Council of Trent, Denzinger 908)

[CatherineM]

I do think there is a big difference between an anointing of the sick and praying over a sick person. I always prayed over my boys when they were hurt or sick, the same Gaelic prayer my father prayed over us:

Dia do do bheannachadh, a linbh. Cuirim thu ar dhion Mhuire is a Mic, Ar dhion Bhride agus a brait, Agus ar dhion De Anocht.

[Resurrexi]

That said, be mindful that [i]parental blessings[/i] are the main exception to the rule that laypeople shouldn't pray over others.

[Selah]

What about praying [i]for [/i]a person to be blessed of God?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868638' date='May 16 2009, 11:32 AM']Praying over a sick person is a Sacrament. And guess who are the only ones who can do it validly? Priests.[/quote]

Administering the Anointing of the Sick is a sacrament.

I personally find these kinds of threads more offensive (to my dignity and intelligence) than discussing Christopher West's opinion on the Church's definition of sodomy.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1869288' date='May 17 2009, 09:33 AM']Administering the Anointing of the Sick is a sacrament.[/quote]

Yes, it is a Sacrament. It is the Sacrament that St. James discusses when he speaks of the priests "praying over" a sick man. There is no evidence of praying over the sick outside of the administration of Extreme Unction during apostolic times. The other instances in the New Testament of ceremonies similar to praying over to someone are accounts of the administration of Confirmation or of Holy Orders, both of which are administered by bishops.

[Slappo]

What about when a preist touches your arm or head turning absolution?
HA!
... I guess that's not praying... it's absolving eh...

[Resurrexi]

It's not really possible for the priest to touch the penitent if there's a screen between the two. In fact, that's why the screen was first mandated: to prevent unchaste touches and other sins against the sixth commandment.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1869344' date='May 17 2009, 09:57 AM']It's not really possible for the priest to touch the penitent if there's a screen between the two. In fact, that's why the screen was first mandated: to prevent unchaste touches and other sins against the sixth commandment.[/quote]

Nice... I didn't know that... learn something everyday here.