George Tiller Shot To Death At Wichita Church

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879396' date='May 31 2009, 02:32 PM']This title is driving me nuts. It's not a church. It's an ecclesial community.[/quote]
You are correct, and I would even question the use of that terminology if the group in question supports abortion. A Christian cannot support abortion as a means or an end.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1879365' date='May 31 2009, 04:16 PM']Yeah, count me as confused on that one, too.[/quote]

Me too...

[Brother Adam]

It is an ELCA group which explains why he is an usher there. I was raised ELCA. While abortion was frowned upon in a general sense as typically unnecessary most individual parishes accept it as a "private choice for each woman and family."

[CoffeeCatholic]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1879507' date='May 31 2009, 05:41 PM']It is an ELCA group which explains why he is an usher there. I was raised ELCA. While abortion was frowned upon in a general sense as typically unnecessary most individual parishes accept it as a "private choice for each woman and family."[/quote]
That's at least better than what I grew up with. I remember listening to my female pastor describe the events leading up to her abortion of her 3rd child who was unplanned. I was probably only 5 at the time and I still remember a lot of it in detail. disgusting.

Praying for Tiller and his family. God only knows the true state of his soul, but what an amazing saint would he make!? Imagine all the grace God is sending down on everyone involved- i just hope they accept it.

[Brother Vinny]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1879280' date='May 31 2009, 02:37 PM']Could have been defense of another. Could have been motivated by any number of things, including derangement that would remove culpability or make the action moral. There's a good chance the doctor wasn't morally culpable for killing children. Of course, we don't really consider them children.[/quote]

In the words of Tonto, "Why do you say [i]we,[/i] white man?" Who is this "we" you keep referring to as not considering the unborn as children?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Brother Vinny' post='1879549' date='May 31 2009, 05:40 PM']In the words of Tonto, "Why do you say [i]we,[/i] white man?" Who is this "we" you keep referring to as not considering the unborn as children?[/quote]
I took the "we" as referring to America, which has accepted "laws" that allow for the murder of the unborn.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879257' date='May 31 2009, 02:17 PM']Not only was the action of whoever shot him immoral, it was also counterproductive and lacking prudence. Tiller will now be hailed by pro-aborts as a martyr.[/quote]


[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879263' date='May 31 2009, 02:21 PM']Yeah, I just had to do that.

[/quote]
Yeah, I just had to do that.

[HisChildForever]

Wait, is George Tiller the creepy guy who would let his "patients" view the bodies of the children???

[Resurrexi]

[HisChildForever]

URGH. He also provided burial services, right? Clearly he acknowledged the children as human beings. (That sentence sounds funny but you know what I mean.) Many pro-abortion individuals are convinced that the baby is not a baby, but obviously Tiller believed otherwise.

[Resurrexi]

I know that he did have "baptisms".

[mamalove]

You know, I still don't know what to think about this whole thing. I've grown up protesting outside his clinic. I remember my mom taking me several times when I was very little. As I got older, I started going on my own. It's been harder for me to get there the last few years, but I was there just a few weeks ago.

With as heated as this whole situation is going to get, I am actually a little fearful for my safety as I drive around with all my pro-life bumper stickers. And, what about a trial. I can just see it happening right around Life Chain Sunday. Our site is on the same highway that his clinic is on. Maybe I'm just thinking way too much here.

But I do pray for his soul and for his family. We all wanted him to stop killing babies, but not like this.

[Donna]

Red, Nihil and etc;

I (emphasis) think Wnichester means, that "we" prolifers don't consider
the unborn as we would born children. Say an abortionist committed
thousands of abortions. Pro-lifers work, pray, work within the law, that's factual.

But what if the "doctor" had instead gone about shooting, poisoning,
bombing or whatever thousands of[i] born [/i]children. I think the streets
would be lined w/ esp. men (and weapons) for manhunt.

Whoever finally stopped such a mass murderer would be hailed as a hero.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Donna' post='1879877' date='May 31 2009, 11:01 PM']Red, Nihil and etc;

I (emphasis) think Wnichester means, that "we" prolifers don't consider
the unborn as we would born children. Say an abortionist committed
thousands of abortions. Pro-lifers work, pray, work within the law, that's factual.

But what if the "doctor" had instead gone about shooting, poisoning,
bombing or whatever thousands of[i] born [/i]children. I think the streets
would be lined w/ esp. men (and weapons) for manhunt.

Whoever finally stopped such a mass murderer would be hailed as a hero.[/quote]

That's how I understood what he said.

[Brother Vinny]

[quote name='Donna' post='1879877' date='May 31 2009, 11:01 PM']Red, Nihil and etc;

I (emphasis) think Wnichester means, that "we" prolifers don't consider
the unborn as we would born children. Say an abortionist committed
thousands of abortions. Pro-lifers work, pray, work within the law, that's factual.

But what if the "doctor" had instead gone about shooting, poisoning,
bombing or whatever thousands of[i] born [/i]children. I think the streets
would be lined w/ esp. men (and weapons) for manhunt.

Whoever finally stopped such a mass murderer would be hailed as a hero.[/quote]


Yeah, I've thought about that angle. It's kind of disturbing to follow the logic of it, too. I [i]do[/i] believe in the statement I made earlier about the equality of personhood regardless of stage of life. The question becomes, why [i]aren't[/i] we as upset over the slaughter of the unborn as we would be the born?

Why do we get upset over the total ~32,000 casualties in Iraq and not the million+ per year casualties of this holocaust?

Then, what really troubles: What if this guy's--this [i]murderer's[/i]--action is the logical follow-through of steadfast belief that unborn lives are just as worth saving as those born?

[Donna]

Brother Vinny wins the $64,000.

I have seen this sorrrow from men on PM over the years.

[Donna]

...or whoever killed the witchita doctor could've been a grieving relative
of a child the doctor aborted.

Way more grisly that the taker of life held funerals for his victims.

[Donna]

Here we go, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=26441"]This Is[/url] bumped on debate.

Premise that [i]warfare [/i]is the definition of what's going on.

Thread's long but page one sums it up.

(it'd be cool to see Don Juan and Kilroy around again)

[Donna]

PS: Don Juan is the [i]only[/i] poster ever in my whole life, who types in one huge paragraph, that I will read.

[Brother Vinny]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879615' date='May 31 2009, 09:13 PM']I know that he did have "baptisms".[/quote]

Which only makes sense, as Lutherans are paedobaptists (just as we Catholics are).

My dear God, what a sick world we live in.