cmotherofpirl Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' post='1880404' date='Jun 1 2009, 03:03 PM']The thing is, though, murder of a born child is already illegal, while abortion is legal. We need to work to make abortion illegal. In order to do that, we must win people over to the pro-life side. We can't do things like this, it's just a huge setback to the ultimate illegalization of abortion.[/quote] Legal doesn't equal moral by any stretch of the imagination. It was quite legal to kill jews and catholics and homosexuals in Germany as well.
rizz_loves_jesus Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1880433' date='Jun 1 2009, 03:13 PM']Legal doesn't equal moral by any stretch of the imagination. It was quite legal to kill jews and catholics and homosexuals in Germany as well.[/quote] I'm not saying legal equals moral, I'm saying that our main priority for abortion should be to ultimately outlaw it. We can't do that if we keep turning America away from the pro-life message by doing things like this. I apologize if I was unclear on that. Edited June 1, 2009 by rizz_loves_jesus
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Hassan/Voteckam, To understand someone, one should read all of the posts on a topic, at least on this thread. Open your eyes and maybe you'll see things. Take the chip off your shoulders and go back up above and read what I wrote, your rebuttal and the facts have already been posted. ------------------------ [quote]Main point: We don't know if the Tiller's killer did it to protect innocent babies.[/quote] I just read that Tillers killing was because Tiller killed babies. Let's not let people call it a political killing, because it's not. Political stuff is economics, speed on the road, taxes, etc... The killing was because Tiller killed innocent babies... how is it that the murder of an innocent child be a "political" matter? If we can call the killing of a killer a political motived murder, then all murders are politically motivated.
dominicansoul Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 to be honest, i don't place the guy who pulled the trigger in the same category of murder that I place tiller...perhaps, he felt he was protecting future unborn children, or perhaps he was personally effected by an abortion tiller performed? we don't know all the details. maybe he was doing it to defend someone he loves from having one? i don't know what to think of this kind of situation...it's happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again... violence begets violence... ..but I can't honestly judge the killer and call him a murderer in the same right as this abortionist... tiller slaughtered thousands in the most vile and violent of ways...and he would've continued to slaughter thousands more if he wasn't stopped... this man only shot and killed one man and will possibly get the death penalty. tiller killed thousands...and received a much humane death penalty than he gave to those little babies...
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Killing Tiller was illegal. Morally wrong... I'm unsure... as the argument can be made from a just war and saving an innocent child standpoint that is pretty strong. The fact is that if enough people did kill abortionist doctors, people would stop doing abortions. I've already posted the things we need to do to stop abortion legally, so people, please don't try twisting what I am posting here... look at the other posts before jumping to conclusions. For those that think Tiller's killer is as bad as Hitler, please explain to me how an abortionist doctor is different from an Auschwitz Nazi, given the scientific fact that life begins at conception and abortionists kill babies with a hand blender, saltwater, or by crushing their skull. God Bless, ironmonk
VoTeckam Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='ironmonk' post='1880444' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:22 PM']Hassan/Voteckam, To understand someone, one should read all of the posts on a topic, at least on this thread. Open your eyes and maybe you'll see things. Take the chip off your shoulders and go back up above and read what I wrote, your rebuttal and the facts have already been posted.[/quote] Iron Monk, I didn't mean to seem as though I was judging you. I understand the emotions involved in this situation. I admire your passion for the unborn. That is something that we share. That passion and your presence at Phatmass lead me to believe that you are someone with an informed conscience. So I trust your judgement. Would you have walked into the church and shot this man in the head? If the answer is no then the killer did the wrong thing.
Marie-Therese Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 My sorrow is great, because our great country has degenerated into this Godless morass of social relativism and hedonistic free-for-all behavior. I pray for the souls of all involved...may God have mercy on Mr. Tiller ( I cannot call him doctor, since a doctor is an upholder of the Hippocratic oath which states "first do no harm"), and may God have mercy on his killer, I pray that they both were able to see the error of their ways and repent. I also pray for all those affected by the scourge of the genocide known as abortion. May God have mercy on us all.
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 VoTeckam, Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't considering the location of Tillers murder, only the killing itself. Most definitely wrong to have killed Tiller in the church. ------------------ Has anyone seen anything more about Scott Roeder (the killer) (i.e. motive)? Imagine if this guy was preventing the death of his own child. Wonder what the media spin would be. God Bless, ironmonk
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Check this article out... [url="http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html"]http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html[/url] [quote]According to the Kansas City Star, the FBI suspected Roeder of having ties with the Montana Freemen, a militia group, which had had standoffs with authorities. ... Roeder has spent time in prison, including a 16-month stint after violating the terms of his parole related to the license plate incident. Roeder's [b]only ties to pro-life groups appear to be messages he left on the public forum at the Operation Rescue[/b] web site concerning Tiller. ... Roeder has applauded those very few people who support killing abortion practitioners and ran around in circles with the handful of people who believe in vigilante actions, but appears to have never been a member of any legitimate pro-life group that represents the majority of pro-life Americans.[/quote]
dominicansoul Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='ironmonk' post='1880471' date='Jun 1 2009, 03:35 PM']Check this article out... [url="http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html"]http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html[/url][/quote] sadly, this is not the way the mass media is going to present this....
StColette Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1880480' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:50 PM']sadly, this is not the way the mass media is going to present this....[/quote] Actually, I read something similar on the Fox News article
dominicansoul Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 i don't really include Fox with the evil mass media....
StColette Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Not sure if this has been posted Fr. Pavone on Tiller Killing May 31, 2009 STATEN ISLAND, NY (MetroCatholic) - Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life, issued the following statement upon hearing this morning of the killing of abortionist George Tiller: “I am saddened to hear of the killing of George Tiller this morning. At this point, we do not know the motives of this act, or who is behind it, whether an angry post-abortive man or woman, or a misguided activist, or an enemy within the abortion industry, or a political enemy frustrated with the way Tiller has escaped prosecution. We should not jump to conclusions or rush to judgment. “But whatever the motives, we at Priests for Life continue to insist on a culture in which violence is never seen as the solution to any problem. Every life has to be protected, without regard to their age or views or actions.” [url="http://www.dfwcatholic.org/fr-pavone-on-tiller-killing4546/.html"]http://www.dfwcatholic.org/fr-pavone-on-ti...lling4546/.html[/url] Edit to add Statement of the Bishops of Kansas "We, the four Catholic Bishops of the Dioceses of Kansas, unequivocally condemn the murder of Dr. George Tiller that occurred in Wichita earlier today. The Catholic Church believes that every human life is sacred. "The murder of a human being is the gravest of crimes and is an intrinsic evil. Such an act of violence against human life is a contradiction of the most fundamental principle of the Pro-Life movement. "The fact that this attack occurred in a church, a place of prayer and worship, only adds to the horror of this terrible crime. "We prayerfully commend Dr. George Tiller to the mercy of God and we pray for comfort and consolation for his family and friends. Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas Most Reverend Ronald M. Gilmore, Bishop of Dodge City Most Reverend Paul S. Coakley, Bishop of Salina Most Reverend Michael O. Jackels, Bishop of Wichita [url="http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33701"]http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33701[/url]
CatherineM Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1879614' date='May 31 2009, 08:12 PM']URGH. He also provided burial services, right? Clearly he acknowledged the children as human beings. (That sentence sounds funny but you know what I mean.) Many pro-abortion individuals are convinced that the baby is not a baby, but obviously Tiller believed otherwise.[/quote] He may have done burials because they are cheaper than paying for biological waste disposal.
CatherineM Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 What if on the way to work on Monday, he has struck by the same light that hit Saul of Tarsus? What if he had a change of heart? What if his murderer robbed him of his chance to repent?
cmotherofpirl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1880775' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:38 AM']What if on the way to work on Monday, he has struck by the same light that hit Saul of Tarsus? What if he had a change of heart? What if his murderer robbed him of his chance to repent?[/quote] Catherine there are a lot of people in the world I feel sorry for, he doesn't make the list.
CatherineM Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1880794' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:47 PM']Catherine there are a lot of people in the world I feel sorry for, he doesn't make the list.[/quote] Yeah, I agree with you on that one, even if I know I shouldn't. I guess now that he is dead, they won't continue to investigate Sibelius' campaign finance issues. Wouldn't it be bizarre if that's why he was shot?
Resurrexi Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1880765' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:35 PM']He may have done burials because they are cheaper than paying for biological waste disposal.[/quote] Interesting. Seems like a logical explanation.
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