Azriel Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I wrote a great post, but I lost it. Bottom line was that people are not just mourning a man, but a vast number of people are mourning a lost part of their youth. Like him or not, for a generation of people MJ permeated our existance. He influenced not just music, but fashion, dance and media. Losing him, is a reminder of our own lost past, and mortality.
Lil Red Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 +J.M.J.+ [url="http://abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael.html"]Terry over at Abbey Roads[/url] has a good point, one we should remember as Catholics: [quote]My deepest concern is his salvation. He grew up in a false religion - Jehovah Witnesses, and reportedly, just in the last few years he turned to Islam. Obviously Jermaine did as well, since he invoked Allah to bless his deceased brother. . Death is huge. It is the culmination of our earthly life, the pinnacle of our career as it were. It is the moment we enter into our true destiny for all eternity. Eternally. Poor Michael... for all of his talents, all his riches, all his fame - his entire life had been lonely and dysfunctional - and he died numbed to his existence on Demerol. Looking back on his life, it should be no wonder he tried to recreate himself cosmetically, constructing a never, never land populated with children. No wonder the pain killers and the mental illness. He wasn't educated, he had no real religion... what happens to a soul like that when it leaves the body and comes before God? We can't know in this life.[/quote]
cmotherofpirl Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 [quote name='Azriel' post='1902159' date='Jun 26 2009, 01:24 PM']I wrote a great post, but I lost it. Bottom line was that people are not just mourning a man, but a vast number of people are mourning a lost part of their youth. Like him or not, for a generation of people MJ permeated our existance. He influenced not just music, but fashion, dance and media. Losing him, is a reminder of our own lost past, and mortality.[/quote] Agreed. They are mourning their own past, not a real human being that they knew and loved.
CatherineM Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1902143' date='Jun 26 2009, 11:10 AM']+J.M.J.+ what makes me extremely sad is the fight that will be had over his children. because let's face it, until they are old enough, their father's estate will be held in trust for them. and whomever has the children controls the trust. the only person i can foresee having the children's best interests at heart (not the money!) is MJ's grandmother, whom i guess was the only stable force in his life and his children's lives.[/quote] I had the same thought. This fight is likely to be as big as the custody fight over Gloria Vanderbilt. If he wasn't truly the kids' biological father, that will all come out too. Just because the mom signed over custody to him doesn't mean she won't try to get custody now that he is dead.
CatherineM Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 The other thought I had is that the way Priscilla Presley handled Elvis' estate for her daughter should be an example to all trustees. His estate had pretty much been whittled down to nothing when she took it over. I guess the difference is that her priority was her daughter's future, not her own personal gain.
cmotherofpirl Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 I hope the courts assign someone strong enough to protect the rights of the children, and preserve some part of whats left of the estate for their welfare and the feeding frenzy of the news animals gives them some dignity.
rhetoricfemme Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 [quote name='Specter' post='1901691' date='Jun 25 2009, 09:01 PM']Am I wrong to feel that only GOD is the judge, and that a dead man cannot defend himself, etc etc?[/quote] I feel the same way. There's no doubt that so much about him became questionable in his later years, but God is the only judge. End of story. Personally, I don't know if he was a pedophile, and I choose not to make a conscious decision based on what we know from his lifestyle, trials, etc. However, I [i]feel[/i] like he was not a pedophile. Not that I have some way of telling, but it just doesn't seem like it for some reason. At this point, and as it always was, it's all between him and God now.
Era Might Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Michael Jackson was a sinner. Regardless of what his sins were, he was a sinner. When you and I die, we will also die as sinners. Pray for Michael Jackson, and hopefully when you die, someone will pray for you.
Moosey Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 What Era said. That's what I meant. Everyone needs prayers.
picchick Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 [quote name='Moosey' post='1902074' date='Jun 26 2009, 10:00 AM']I just want everyone to know that my previous comment wasn't meant to be a personal attack. I guess I live in a cave and didn't know that his molestation of little boys wasn't confirmed.[/quote] Yes. I too thought that it was confirmed. Thus my frustration. [quote]My point was to say he needs prayers. Probably more than most. I've always felt bad for Michael Jackson for the way his father treated him and all he's been through. His life wasn't the greatest. He deserved so much better. He's been wicked talented from day one. I think he's the only child prodigy that was still extremely famous as an adult. God rest his soul [/quote] I would never condemn someone to hell. I think that everyone needs prayers and I pray for anyone and everyone. I was just frustrated. Again, I apologize.
Lil Red Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 +J.M.J.+ [quote name='CatherineM' post='1902211' date='Jun 26 2009, 11:42 AM']The other thought I had is that the way Priscilla Presley handled Elvis' estate for her daughter should be an example to all trustees. His estate had pretty much been whittled down to nothing when she took it over. I guess the difference is that her priority was her daughter's future, not her own personal gain.[/quote] exactly. and as far as i know, she didn't use the trust fund to elevate her own 'celebrity' status. [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1902234' date='Jun 26 2009, 12:15 PM']I hope the courts assign someone strong enough to protect the rights of the children, and preserve some part of whats left of the estate for their welfare and the feeding frenzy of the news animals gives them some dignity.[/quote]definitely!
Moosey Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='picchick' post='1902282' date='Jun 26 2009, 03:48 PM']Yes. I too thought that it was confirmed. Thus my frustration. I would never condemn someone to hell. I think that everyone needs prayers and I pray for anyone and everyone. I was just frustrated. Again, I apologize.[/quote] It's okay. Im with you on this one Edited June 26, 2009 by Moosey
Dust's Sister Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 What Michael Jackson means to me. Dear people of the world, I became a Michael Jackson fan in the early 90's. I was about 10 years old. I'm 27 now. My mom owned the Moonwalker VHS tape. It had the Man In The Mirror video on there. That very video is how I fell in love with Michael. I fell in love with Michael for his dance moves, talent, singing, and especially and most importantly his humanitarian efforts. The starving children in Africa. He has always inspired me to help them somehow. He has always inspired me to help the poor and the sick. Especially the children of the world. Songs like Man In The Mirror and Heal The World mean so much to me. They have inspired me in so many ways. Everytime I am down or sad I just listen to those words and somehow gain comfort in listening to them. In the early 90s my mom and dad got a divorce. Michael has helped me through the pains I had to go through, in moving so much around. Going from school to school and not keeping friends. I was so lonely. Michael has kept me company in my tough and lonely times. He has inspired me to be a better person. He has inspired me to keep that childlike innocence. When the 1993 allegations broke lose, I did not believe one bit of it. I loved Michael for being a humanitarian and a loving and caring person. There is no way he would EVER hurt a child. I know that in my heart as well as millions of fans around the world. Just read his lyrics. Listen to Man In The Mirror, Heal the World, Earth Song, Keep The Faith, Childhood. These are just some of the songs that show what kind of person Michael Jackson truly is. He is the kindest man I have ever known. And so many people have taken him for granted it just makes me sick. All he wants to do is create peace for the world. Create love and happiness and make people's hearts happy. He has certainly made mine happy and I just want him to be remembered as I kind, loving and gentle person. Please, get to know Michael Jackson before you judge him. If you really want to know him hear the song “Childhood.” Written and produced by Michael. He has written such beautiful music. He's visited so many hospitals to visit the sick kids. He's donated millions. He's in the Guinness book of world records for donating the most money to charities. Please get to know who Michael truly was and why he inspired so many fans. He's not the freak like a lot of media says. Just because he has a different life style doesn't mean he's weird. Please, just for once, get to know his heart. He has also inspired me to be a better person. And to use my talents and to be the best at what I do. Thank you Michael Jackson for being who you are. For being strong. For being there for the fans. For simply being Michael Joseph Jackson. I love you forever. I will never forget you. I love you.
Specter Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1902125' date='Jun 26 2009, 11:11 AM']I don't get that people are actually crying over his death: I think they are crying over some emotional connection to a man they didn't even know, and the tears are for some imagined personal loss that doesn't exist. I think there are far more important things in this world to cry over than some celebrity death.[/quote] Have you ever been moved to tears by a song, or by a movie or any other work of art? Because if you have, then I believe you've succumbed to the same feelings that people are having about the loss of Michael Jackson, a man that has donated so much to charities for the benefit of children the world over. I have cried watching movies, losing Gandalf, saying goodbye to Frodo, etc. I'd mention others, but I'd likely face ridicule. Sure, they're imagined, but the characters have likely taught you something, and it's always sad when you lose someone who was a mentor to you in some regard. The difference is that I can visit with those characters time and time again. I would write more, but contemplating this says it all.
cmotherofpirl Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='Specter' post='1902598' date='Jun 27 2009, 02:10 AM']Have you ever been moved to tears by a song, or by a movie or any other work of art? Because if you have, then I believe you've succumbed to the same feelings that people are having about the loss of Michael Jackson, a man that has donated so much to charities for the benefit of children the world over. I have cried watching movies, losing Gandalf, saying goodbye to Frodo, etc. I'd mention others, but I'd likely face ridicule. Sure, they're imagined, but the characters have likely taught you something, and it's always sad when you lose someone who was a mentor to you in some regard. The difference is that I can visit with those characters time and time again. I would write more, but contemplating this says it all.[/quote] A personal reaction to a work of art etc is not a bad thing at all, but I really don't get the great emotional reaction to a person you don't really know on a personal basis. I get teary when Gandalf dies, but that was good stagecraft and good acting, and not an actual person dying. Having just gone thru a sudden family death, there is no comparison to some celebrity of your childhood. When I see pictures of people crying in the streets, I think its a bit much. When a member of your family dies you [i]are [/i]devastated, they are real human beings you have hugged, and talked to, you have a relationship with them. You actually feel like your heart is cracking in two because a real relationship is severed forever. You don't have a real relationship to a person singing on stage, they evoke an emotional response, but that is not the same thing as actual love. They may be important to you and fill a need, but that again is not a relationship of two actual interacting people.
Dust's Sister Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1902718' date='Jun 27 2009, 11:20 AM']A personal reaction to a work of art etc is not a bad thing at all, but I really don't get the great emotional reaction to a person you don't really know on a personal basis. I get teary when Gandalf dies, but that was good stagecraft and good acting, and not an actual person dying. Having just gone thru a sudden family death, there is no comparison to some celebrity of your childhood. When I see pictures of people crying in the streets, I think its a bit much. When a member of your family dies you [i]are [/i]devastated, they are real human beings you have hugged, and talked to, you have a relationship with them. You actually feel like your heart is cracking in two because a real relationship is severed forever. You don't have a real relationship to a person singing on stage, they evoke an emotional response, but that is not the same thing as actual love. They may be important to you and fill a need, but that again is not a relationship of two actual interacting people.[/quote] Did you just ignore my last post? People just don't understand. IT WAS like losing a family member to me. I know every song he wrote, I know the lyrics he wrote. I've seen every interview this man did. He's a child at heart. You will never understand. You know, family member or not, Michael Jackson was LOVED, and I mean LOVED by millions. I LOVED him so so so so very much. His music has helped me cope with life. It helped me a lot. But.. I guess you will never understand. Okay, how about this. How did you feel when the Pope die? Did you cry? Were you sad? Oh, probably not because you probably never me the man yourself. I guess you will never understand. It's okay. I just know that I love Michael so much and I will miss him greatly.
Lil Red Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='Dust's Sister' post='1902728' date='Jun 27 2009, 10:50 AM']I guess you will never understand. It's okay. I just know that I love Michael so much and I will miss him greatly.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ fine. but we don't have to agree. it seems like some here are insisting that we should be heartbroken about his passing. i'm not, and i'm not sorry about that. yes, it was sad. yes, i've prayed for his soul several times (as we all should, he was brought up Jehovah Witness and recently converted to Islam). but that's as far as it goes for me.
Seven77 Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 I thought he was cool---think Moonwalker and before. I grew up listening to his music and watching the Jackson5 cartoon. He was/is a poor soul. Prayers. May he truly rest in peace.
Ash Wednesday Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1902732' date='Jun 27 2009, 01:24 PM']+J.M.J.+ fine. but we don't have to agree. it seems like some here are insisting that we should be heartbroken about his passing.[/quote] If that's the case, then on the flip side it could equally be said that it seems like others less affected are being somewhat condescending.
cmotherofpirl Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 [quote name='Dust's Sister' post='1902728' date='Jun 27 2009, 01:50 PM']Did you just ignore my last post? People just don't understand. IT WAS like losing a family member to me. I know every song he wrote, I know the lyrics he wrote. I've seen every interview this man did. He's a child at heart. You will never understand. You know, family member or not, Michael Jackson was LOVED, and I mean LOVED by millions. I LOVED him so so so so very much. His music has helped me cope with life. It helped me a lot. But.. I guess you will never understand. Okay, how about this. How did you feel when the Pope die? Did you cry? Were you sad? Oh, probably not because you probably never me the man yourself. I guess you will never understand. It's okay. I just know that I love Michael so much and I will miss him greatly.[/quote] First, I was responding to Specters post not yours. Second, I am glad his music has helped you with your life. But for me love is something that involves a relationship between two parties that actually know each other. You can idolize, adore, admire, emulate, like etc someone you have never met, but thats not a love relationship, thats something about them that makes you feel good and you respond. They don't know you exist except possibly in a generic sense, you are a fan. I am a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and in that sense I can say I"love" them in the same way I love Primanti sandwiches or I love the beach, but thats is not love in a personal sense. I guess it depends on which definition of love that you use. I will miss the future possibilites of his music, and I feel very sorry for his poor children, but other than that the hoopla is tiring. Was I sad when the Holy Father died - yes, the world had lost a good and decent man, a future saint. Did I cry - no. When my daughter's partner died in April, I cried, I screamed and I bawled my eyes out because this was a human being that was a part of our family, and he died a tragic death. We knew him, loved him and he loved us in return. The loss of a human being you have a relationship with is devastation, an admired pop star that you have never met, is no comparison.
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