A Theory On Drugs

[MarysLittleFlower]

I had a little bit of wine a few days ago... I didn't really feel an effect from it. I only had it for a social reason. Are you saying that with a bit of marijuana you would notice nothing, and that people don't take marijuana for the effects and only the taste? I did research how it tends to affect people from various sources. If you've never had those particular things its because its not the same for each person. But to me having marijuana comes from the same motive as having too much alcohol - wanting to feel 'high'. However there are many people who have alcohol never intending or getting to that stage. I don't imagine that people have marijuana or other drugs like that for the taste. That is where my argument is coming from...

[MarysLittleFlower]

It is the intent of having marijuana that bothers me like I said before... Whereas people can have wine not to get tipsy or drunk. I have seen my Catholic friends have beer or wine and still act like normal people after - not being drunk. I don't think many people have marijuana intending to feel the same as before... Also I think the effects of very moderate use of alcohol are limited to maybe being more social. I mean when it just begins to affect you. Then you should probably stop. But if the effects of moderate use of marijuana already impact senses and perception how is that not like getting drunk, each time?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

1. Alcohol immediately effects your equilibrium even in small doses.

2. Alcohol is a deadly poison.

3. St Benedict advises " everything in moderation is good." I'm assuming he is talking about anything natural and alcohol by the way uses a scientific method to brew it a chemical morphing so to speak and therefore is not natural. Though neither is a lot of food on our supermarket shelves.

4. I think most drugs on the planet are for medicinal purposes, remembering it is GODS green earth and God is not the deceiver and won't put trick plants on the planet to test us, God neither tests nore tempts, I think it says that in john 1 or 2.

5. If drugs or alcohol are to be used recreationally in any amount it should be used wisely and that means not daily whatever amount you are using and also don't be a glutton, gluttony is a sin and needs to be taken to confession.

6. "Thou shalt not have any other GOD besides the LORD your GOD" " Love thy neighbour as thyself." Do not love anything more than GOD and others, whether natural substance or not, including entertainment by the way.

7. Do not sell drugs for you are participating in the circle of evil(perhaps even alcohol), do not propagate them(perhaps even alcohol) and if the substance makes you sick in anyway it becomes a sin(perhaps even alcohol). This is what the catechism says on the matter or words to this effect if I remember correctly except the alcohol bit in brackets that I added and is my opinion.

 

and 8. 9. 10. DISCLAIMER: I have no teaching authority I am not part of the magisterium of priests, bishop and pope. This is all Just my personal opinion and I don't really know if I believe 100% everything I have stated because honestly I don't know it's kind of just an inkling. And anything I ever say is not infallible but also I would never deliberately deceive any of you.

 

Signed TAB.

 

God is Good, God is Love.

 

Onward Christian souls. Jesus iz LORD!

 

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Guest]

I have seen my Catholic friends have beer or wine and still act like normal people after

Like I said smoking a bowl doesn't make you act not "normal". You seem to think it's like an acid trip or something. Or mushrooms. I've never done either. Anyhow like I said earlier if I smoked a bowl I would have to tell you I did for you to have any clue. I won't be curled up on the floor covering my head hiding from monsters trying to kill me in another dimension. Hopefully I will quit replying in this thread. It's not going anywhere and in all honesty marijuana is not something that really matters that much to me. Again kids just say no to drugs including alcohol. Edited February 20, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

Ok, but one last question then :) even though I'm 'debating' I'm trying to figure it out. Do you feel different than usual in terms of perceiving the world after this? (I don't mean like feeling different because you're more awake from coffee or calm after camomile tea). Whether it looks like that or not.

The reason I'm asking... I began trying to figure out WHY is it a sin to get drunk. Could be because its - lack of moderation, leads to impaired reasoning and weakens the will etc. With food, it is gluttony when we eat only for pleasure not nutrition and over eat. And eating for pleasure only shows an attachment to food. Based on this reasoning, how can smoking marijuana be accepted? Its only for pleasure or the excitement of it, which is wrong motive for food or other things. It has no nutritional value. It also seems to affect perception of things which is related to reason. Immoderate use of alcohol is wrong because its seeking pleasure in altering brain chemicals and feelings... It is hedonistic and we can't imagine the Saints doing anything like that. But marijuana seems similar in this way... Focused on pleasure of experiences only and making your mind do things it doesn't usually do for the pleasure of it. It seems along the same way as gluttony. I can't imagine Saints doing this.. Can you? We are called to be Saints... Why wouldn't they do it? Because they are not focused on seeking earthly pleasures and experiences. If they saw something beautiful in nature and thanked God for it that's one thing, that is good. They weren't seeking it selfishly. If food happens to taste good, then ok, but it shows virtue to fast from tasty food at times. But eating just for the taste is imperfect or sinful. So doesn't it seem imperfect to alter how God made one's brain to work in order to derive some pleasurable sensation? We can argue how similar or different it is to gluttony or being drunk but the specifics don't matter - isn't the principle the same? I would be interested in your thoughts...

[MarysLittleFlower]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. In the Bible it says not to get drunk so moderation is key here. But when people are having alcohol in this way, they are not seeking experiences. But with marijuana isn't it always experience and pleasure based in the motive? That is what concerns me because Catholic teaching shows that eating or drinking SOLELY for pleasure (like when not hungry or to get drunk) is wrong. Having wine because you are thirsty and it's what your culture does has a different motive.

It just seems like the logic we apply to food drink and other things isn't getting applied to marijuana. But I think that is inconsistent?

I m trying to figure it out actually. I'm debating in order to figure out, to see what people's responses are :)

[Guest]

I had a little bit of wine a few days ago... I didn't really feel an effect from it. I only had it for a social reason. Are you saying that with a bit of marijuana you would notice nothing, and that people don't take marijuana for the effects and only the taste? I did research how it tends to affect people from various sources. If you've never had those particular things its because its not the same for each person. But to me having marijuana comes from the same motive as having too much alcohol - wanting to feel 'high'. However there are many people who have alcohol never intending or getting to that stage. I don't imagine that people have marijuana or other drugs like that for the taste. That is where my argument is coming from...

Quite a few people enjoy alcohol not only for the taste but the nice relaxing buzz that accompanies it. God is good. When I smoke a very SMALL (capitalized to show the importance of moderation) amount I enjoy the relaxing buzz too. Yes. You got me. I enjoy reading religious material and listening to hip hop (mostly Catholic/Christian) after too. Or watching a cool unsolved mysteries type show on tv. Or a quantum physics video on you tube. Or a Christian/Atheist debate video. Or just freaking out about life and how I will probably end up in hell. Because I'm a worthless sinner. Please don't ever smoke marijuana and keep firm in your conscious that it's a sin for you. I respect you for it. God bless. Edited February 21, 2015 by Guest

[Archaeology cat]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. 

​Not always true. Besides the Biblical examples of Noah and Lot, there are lots of ancient examples of people drinking to get drunk. Look at some Greek painted pottery. 

Fun fact: part of the grain ration for the pyramid builders was beer. Another fun fact: we have written records from some of the work villages, including work rosters and such. There's definitely an example of someone not coming in to work because he was drunk. 

[Guest]

http://www.projectym.com/if-marijuana-is-legal-is-it-moral/

[CrossCuT]

I dont recall where this conversation went since I think some of the posts are gone.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

a little bit of wine for thirst doesn't sound like a good reason to me for drinking alcohol, water, tea, coffee, juice is sufficient to quench thirst surely. People use drugs and alcohol to relax and calm the nerves in general. Whether a little or a lot, it is basically a form of meditation, to quiet the aches and pains of the mind, heart, body and soul and in excess both have the opposite effect. Same rules for drugs with alcohol, it all depends how much you have, how often you have it, exluding all illicit drugs that are a chemical concoxtion from hell. Not everyone has the ability to meditate in the spiritual way or even pray, some people have a bit of wine or marijuana and suddenly there praying, praising and worshipping the LORD or simply letting go and letting GOD and listening for his voice, who is to say that is less holy or more holy than doing it with out a substance, God created all these plants for a reason and gave us the wisdom to create alcohol, not that all that man has created can be used for good perhaps like condoms but for the most everything man creates is neutral and can be used for good or evil, that what I think anyway. Jesus used the earth to heal the blind mans eyes, he spat in the clay and wiped it in his eyes, perhaps physical eyes or spiritual eyes of the heart I don't know, perhaps both? Just something to think about.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

but I do lean towards that it is better without recreational drugs and alcohol for me personally, I have learnt that through experience but I can not judge others who use it for whatever reason medicinal or not, I can judge there actions and sins but perhaps not there drug or alcohol use unless it is in excess as being the cause of any serious problems in there lives personally or the community as a whole. You know how the bible says " do not swear upon anything in heaven or upon the earth." I would be careful not to blame or judge anything on gods green earth as being the cause of sin, destruction and lies.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. In the Bible it says not to get drunk so moderation is key here. But when people are having alcohol in this way, they are not seeking experiences. But with marijuana isn't it always experience and pleasure based in the motive? That is what concerns me because Catholic teaching shows that eating or drinking SOLELY for pleasure (like when not hungry or to get drunk) is wrong. Having wine because you are thirsty and it's what your culture does has a different motive.

It just seems like the logic we apply to food drink and other things isn't getting applied to marijuana. But I think that is inconsistent?

I m trying to figure it out actually. I'm debating in order to figure out, to see what people's responses are

​

I think the whole drink for nutrition and because the water is putrid is a crock. Though supposedly red wine in moderation is healthy, and moderation of most things outside of water and food means not done daily, and with the whole putrid water thing you can boil water for 9 mins and it kills 99.9% of germs,bacteria and disease, so I kind of don't believe the popular putrid water reason. I do believe the jewish religious drunk a very weak wine, perhaps around the equivalent of 2% alcohol content so it was very hard to get drunk on it, you would have to drink a huge amount to get drunk. But pleasure is also not the enemy, the church does not teach that, I don't know where you get that from that is a Muslim philosophy by the way that pleasure is evil.

[Archaeology cat]

​

I think the whole drink for nutrition and because the water is putrid is a crock. Though supposedly red wine in moderation is healthy, and moderation of most things outside of water and food means not done daily, and with the whole putrid water thing you can boil water for 9 mins and it kills 99.9% of germs,bacteria and disease, so I kind of don't believe the popular putrid water reason. I do believe the jewish religious drunk a very weak wine, perhaps around the equivalent of 2% alcohol content so it was very hard to get drunk on it, you would have to drink a huge amount to get drunk. But pleasure is also not the enemy, the church does not teach that, I don't know where you get that from that is a Muslim philosophy by the way that pleasure is evil.

​Um, if you live in a place where clean water is a luxury, then drinking alcohol instead of water makes perfect sense. Yes, you can boil water, but what if the only available water source if 2 miles away walking, and what if you can't afford to burn enough to boil water just to drink? And yes, wine does have health benefits. For one, it counteracts listeria, for example. 

I'm not sure about the alcohol content of the Israeli wine. But I'd argue that it was very possible to get drunk on it, considering we have examples of that (Lot and Noah for example). We do know that Roman wine at the time of Jesus was strong, though. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

​Um, if you live in a place where clean water is a luxury, then drinking alcohol instead of water makes perfect sense. Yes, you can boil water, but what if the only available water source if 2 miles away walking, and what if you can't afford to burn enough to boil water just to drink? And yes, wine does have health benefits. For one, it counteracts listeria, for example. 

I'm not sure about the alcohol content of the Israeli wine. But I'd argue that it was very possible to get drunk on it, considering we have examples of that (Lot and Noah for example). We do know that Roman wine at the time of Jesus was strong, though. 

I never said you can't get drunk off weak wine, and I understand your point about mixing strong wine with dirty water when you have not enough fuel to boil water, and yeah I guess it's possible that they did but it is still more an urban myth as far as I'm aware than a solid fact, and also an excuse to continue to abuse alcohol within the church. I'm not saying don't drink alcohol but don't use the excuse that the Israelis used to mix there dirty water with strong wine, your water is not dirty. And did you know that there is a little well known verse in the O.T that says pray for rain in spring and water, best time for fruit trees I think, good ripening sun in​ summer and mild winters, when there are less clouds about, may have had something to do with the grapes and a law of man, though for a catholic Christian grapes are very important for the blood of Christ and perhaps it is not a law of man at all.