A Theory On Drugs

[Ark]

Establishing causal relationships is very difficult and requires a lot of data. It's not far-fetched to say smoking weed increases the risk for some sort of brain damage further on in life.

[MarysLittleFlower]

That is a good question Ice Nine, I will think/pray and get back to you :)

[MarysLittleFlower]

Ice Nine, I looked up your question by reading Catholic Encyclopedia on 'gluttony'. From what I understood eating/drinking exclusively for enjoyment is gluttony... I read elsewhere that thinking you won't be happy without such a thing is also wrong. Both things take something that is not bad - food - but with an imperfect intention. I don't think its wrong to enjoy food but the main reason we eat is for nourishment. The main reason should be there somewhere. Same with other things that people like to do but that have another primary purpose. That's why I brought up the point on recreation and entertainment - recreation is more correct because we need rest from work but entertainment is just providing the mind with fun things often out of laziness - I've been guilty of that by watching hours of TV in the past. Recreation is like taking a walk, talking to a friend, playing with your dog, or if it involves movies/music the type of movies do you some good. (Like inspire to goodness).

Its best to do like the Saints and not seek personal enjoyment and with food to only eat very tasty things if out of charity/necessity. They are not evil in themselves. It just protects the intention. :) I know this seems really strict but I've been thinking of this for a very long time and that's just what seems more perfect to me... I mean, we ARE all called to be saints! I have very far to go myself but I tried to eliminate or limit some things that were not helpful

With marijuana, I guess that is my whole concern. I believe in asking the question - what is more perfect? I'm not picking on people who use marijuana here... It also goes for me when I eat too much chocolate etc. The similarity is doing something only for enjoyment. - I'm not against enjoying things, just orienting the intent to a more primary purpose so it doesn't become an idol. The difference is that food has a primary purpose of nourishment and marijuana seems to be centered on intensifying experiences.

Anyway if I need to change something in what I think I'm open to suggestions... But it seems consistent with Catholic teaching? I'm not against enjoying things... For more info look up gluttony in Catholic Encyclopedia online, it sort of mentions this...

Edited January 25, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[CatherineM]

Do you have any links? Not that I doubt you, I'm just interested to see actual science concerning this.

This being the wider subject of marijuana use.

http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1199.abstract

Swedish army has mandatory service. They interviewed 50,000 recruits about pot use, and followed them. There have been, the last time I bothered to look, 32 reputable scientific studies since then, and a majority found the same thing. They think it is the chemical that is similar to LSD in pot that is the culprit. It's probably also primarily those who already have a genetic predisposition.

Genetic studies have found the mutations in family groups with either bipolar or schizophrenia appears on the same chromisome. They are starting to think that both illnesses and possibly tuerrette's and autism might all be related but on a bell curve. It would explain why some with bipolar don't respond to bipolar meds but do to schizophrenia meds.

About a month ago a major paper came out that identified over 100 genes are involved in schizophrenia. Would explain why someone like my husband can live a somewhat normal life on meds, while others don't respond to any of the current meds. There are lots of people who carry the genes and don't know it. So pot use is a form of Russian roulet.

Our adopted son has schizophrenia in his family as well as bipolar. His sister has been using pot since their Dad gave it to her at the age of ten. She's 25 now, and basically smokes it all day. She has been hospitalized for drug induced seizures, and has recently started believing she's a dog. She's been barking and growling at people walking by and ended up in the big hospital after biting several people including a cop. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. My son feels lucky to just have bipolar.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Altered states of consciousness are a traditional way of having spiritual experiences because they open you up to different ways of perceiving the world. Modern recreational drug use is not the only kind.

Catholicism discourages from seeking any altered states of consciousness or spiritual experiences. Spiritual experiences come from God only if He wills and we only prepare through prayer humility and love. Focusing on them is also dangerous. St John of the Cross and other mystics who were VERY experienced make this very clear..

[MarysLittleFlower]

http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1199.abstract

Swedish army has mandatory service. They interviewed 50,000 recruits about pot use, and followed them. There have been, the last time I bothered to look, 32 reputable scientific studies since then, and a majority found the same thing. They think it is the chemical that is similar to LSD in pot that is the culprit. It's probably also primarily those who already have a genetic predisposition.

Genetic studies have found the mutations in family groups with either bipolar or schizophrenia appears on the same chromisome. They are starting to think that both illnesses and possibly tuerrette's and autism might all be related but on a bell curve. It would explain why some with bipolar don't respond to bipolar meds but do to schizophrenia meds.

About a month ago a major paper came out that identified over 100 genes are involved in schizophrenia. Would explain why someone like my husband can live a somewhat normal life on meds, while others don't respond to any of the current meds. There are lots of people who carry the genes and don't know it. So pot use is a form of Russian roulet.

Our adopted son has schizophrenia in his family as well as bipolar. His sister has been using pot since their Dad gave it to her at the age of ten. She's 25 now, and basically smokes it all day. She has been hospitalized for drug induced seizures, and has recently started believing she's a dog. She's been barking and growling at people walking by and ended up in the big hospital after biting several people including a cop. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. My son feels lucky to just have bipolar.

That is so sad :( I didn't know about this. Edited January 25, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Guest]

I will be honest and say marijuana gives me bad anxiety sometimes.That's why I rarely use it. I consider myself sober the last 16 months. Haven't drank once although I have smoked very lightly at times. I would never not consider myself sober during this time period. Just now before bed the thought crossed my mind to smoke a bowl and I declined. I haven't smoked at all this week. Marijuana for me has no addicting capacity and it's something I never crave. Although that's not the case for everyone. Being sober and clear headed this last year and a half is something I'm grateful and thankful to God for.I'm well aware a lot of people don't use marijuana in small amounts when they choose to smoke. They want to get really high and not just obtain a slight buzz.It may not be a problem for them but it would be for me. It would make me inactive and always paranoid.I have friends who smoke all day everyday and pry are addicted. Still a way safer habit then being addicted to alcohol but at the same time it without question has its downfalls.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Guest

[Era Might]

Catholicism discourages from seeking any altered states of consciousness or spiritual experiences. Spiritual experiences come from God only if He wills and we only prepare through prayer humility and love. Focusing on them is also dangerous. St John of the Cross and other mystics who were VERY experienced make this very clear..

 

Yeah, it's not part of the Catholic tradition, but religion more generally. 

[CrossCuT]

http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1199.abstract

Swedish army has mandatory service. They interviewed 50,000 recruits about pot use, and followed them. There have been, the last time I bothered to look, 32 reputable scientific studies since then, and a majority found the same thing. They think it is the chemical that is similar to LSD in pot that is the culprit. It's probably also primarily those who already have a genetic predisposition.

Genetic studies have found the mutations in family groups with either bipolar or schizophrenia appears on the same chromisome. They are starting to think that both illnesses and possibly tuerrette's and autism might all be related but on a bell curve. It would explain why some with bipolar don't respond to bipolar meds but do to schizophrenia meds.

About a month ago a major paper came out that identified over 100 genes are involved in schizophrenia. Would explain why someone like my husband can live a somewhat normal life on meds, while others don't respond to any of the current meds. There are lots of people who carry the genes and don't know it. So pot use is a form of Russian roulet.

Our adopted son has schizophrenia in his family as well as bipolar. His sister has been using pot since their Dad gave it to her at the age of ten. She's 25 now, and basically smokes it all day. She has been hospitalized for drug induced seizures, and has recently started believing she's a dog. She's been barking and growling at people walking by and ended up in the big hospital after biting several people including a cop. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. My son feels lucky to just have bipolar.

 

Please note that this study only looked at the association of characteristics exhibited. They state right in their abstract that this could be due to the marijuana or to other drugs as well as personality type.

And you are very right in that there have been TONS of studies on the association of pot smoking with mental/personality disorders, but none of them are able to distinguish if one actually leads to the other; hence they are associations. 

The key here is that people who have these disorders may be predisposed to wanting to use drugs to alleviate symptoms. These studies are completely incapable of making that distinction and it often up to the interpretation of the reader however without adequate understanding of what the study is stating you can easily draw a conclusion that is not appropriate for the data presented. 

[Ark]

Yeah, it's not part of the Catholic tradition, but religion more generally. 

 

Some religions, yes, as in shamanism. In my experience trance like states are dangerous and open one up to the influences of the occult. Catholicism rightly teaches that perfection lies in the will and not in any state of altered consciousness.

[CatherineM]

Please note that this study only looked at the association of characteristics exhibited. They state right in their abstract that this could be due to the marijuana or to other drugs as well as personality type.

And you are very right in that there have been TONS of studies on the association of pot smoking with mental/personality disorders, but none of them are able to distinguish if one actually leads to the other; hence they are associations.

The key here is that people who have these disorders may be predisposed to wanting to use drugs to alleviate symptoms. These studies are completely incapable of making that distinction and it often up to the interpretation of the reader however without adequate understanding of what the study is stating you can easily draw a conclusion that is not appropriate for the data presented.

You're probably right. When it comes to drug debates, I don't debate. Once you've lost a close family member to drug use, it's too raw to debate philosophically. I just like to point out things that concern me. As to someone using drugs or being in favor of legalization, I couldn't care less honestly.

[Ark]

Peace be with you CrossCuT,

 

The key here is that people who have these disorders may be predisposed to wanting to use drugs to alleviate symptoms. These studies are completely incapable of making that distinction and it often up to the interpretation of the reader however without adequate understanding of what the study is stating you can easily draw a conclusion that is not appropriate for the data presented. 

 

Causation is very difficult to establish, risk however is not. 

 

"The evidence is consistent with the view that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes independently of confounding and transient intoxication effects, although evidence for affective outcomes is less strong. The uncertainty about whether cannabis causes psychosis is unlikely to be resolved by further longitudinal studies such as those reviewed here. However, we conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life."

 

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61162-3/abstract?cc=y

[CrossCuT]

Peace be with you CrossCuT,

 

 

Causation is very difficult to establish, risk however is not. 

 

"The evidence is consistent with the view that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes independently of confounding and transient intoxication effects, although evidence for affective outcomes is less strong. The uncertainty about whether cannabis causes psychosis is unlikely to be resolved by further longitudinal studies such as those reviewed here. However, we conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life."

 

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61162-3/abstract?cc=y

 

There is still no proof. Those kids could have had that disorder since birth or been genetically predisposed to get it after sufficient mutations due to age.

But kids who DO have that predisposition could have a tenancy to use drugs to alleviate symptoms thus the correlation could be a reversal of what people think. This study is making a bold leap by stating what they did. 

 

Correlation is a good observation but it is most definitely not a hard fact. I have read a lot of articles on all the observable "results" of smoking marijuana, but he same problem is inherent in each case. I dont not believe a sufficient study as been conducted to look into this correlation problem. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by CrossCuT

[Guest]

Once you've lost a close family member to drug use, it's too raw to debate philosophically.

Alcohol is the drug that seems to take the most lives. It took my close friend. Not talking to you but people who over and over exclude alcohol from being a drug are out of their mind. Don't know if they're being purposely ignorant or what. Edited January 26, 2015 by Guest

[Ark]

Peace be with you CrossCut,

 

There is still no proof. Those kids could have had that disorder since birth or been genetically predisposed to get it after sufficient mutations due to age.

But kids who DO have that predisposition could have a tenancy to use drugs to alleviate symptoms thus the correlation could be a reversal of what people think. This study is making a bold leap by stating what they did. 

 

Correlation is a good observation but it is most definitely not a hard fact. I have read a lot of articles on all the observable "results" of smoking marijuana, but he same problem is inherent in each case. I dont not believe a sufficient study as been conducted to look into this correlation problem. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about there being "no proof."  There is proof for a significantly increased risk for psychosis in marijuana users. The Lancet is a reputable journal, there are other studies that have found similar results.