A Theory On Drugs

[MarysLittleFlower]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. In the Bible it says not to get drunk so moderation is key here. But when people are having alcohol in this way, they are not seeking experiences. But with marijuana isn't it always experience and pleasure based in the motive? That is what concerns me because Catholic teaching shows that eating or drinking SOLELY for pleasure (like when not hungry or to get drunk) is wrong. Having wine because you are thirsty and it's what your culture does has a different motive.

It just seems like the logic we apply to food drink and other things isn't getting applied to marijuana. But I think that is inconsistent?

I m trying to figure it out actually. I'm debating in order to figure out, to see what people's responses are :)

[Guest]

I had a little bit of wine a few days ago... I didn't really feel an effect from it. I only had it for a social reason. Are you saying that with a bit of marijuana you would notice nothing, and that people don't take marijuana for the effects and only the taste? I did research how it tends to affect people from various sources. If you've never had those particular things its because its not the same for each person. But to me having marijuana comes from the same motive as having too much alcohol - wanting to feel 'high'. However there are many people who have alcohol never intending or getting to that stage. I don't imagine that people have marijuana or other drugs like that for the taste. That is where my argument is coming from...

Quite a few people enjoy alcohol not only for the taste but the nice relaxing buzz that accompanies it. God is good. When I smoke a very SMALL (capitalized to show the importance of moderation) amount I enjoy the relaxing buzz too. Yes. You got me. I enjoy reading religious material and listening to hip hop (mostly Catholic/Christian) after too. Or watching a cool unsolved mysteries type show on tv. Or a quantum physics video on you tube. Or a Christian/Atheist debate video. Or just freaking out about life and how I will probably end up in hell. Because I'm a worthless sinner. Please don't ever smoke marijuana and keep firm in your conscious that it's a sin for you. I respect you for it. God bless. Edited February 21, 2015 by Guest

[Archaeology cat]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. 

​Not always true. Besides the Biblical examples of Noah and Lot, there are lots of ancient examples of people drinking to get drunk. Look at some Greek painted pottery. 

Fun fact: part of the grain ration for the pyramid builders was beer. Another fun fact: we have written records from some of the work villages, including work rosters and such. There's definitely an example of someone not coming in to work because he was drunk. 

[Guest]

http://www.projectym.com/if-marijuana-is-legal-is-it-moral/

[CrossCuT]

I dont recall where this conversation went since I think some of the posts are gone.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

a little bit of wine for thirst doesn't sound like a good reason to me for drinking alcohol, water, tea, coffee, juice is sufficient to quench thirst surely. People use drugs and alcohol to relax and calm the nerves in general. Whether a little or a lot, it is basically a form of meditation, to quiet the aches and pains of the mind, heart, body and soul and in excess both have the opposite effect. Same rules for drugs with alcohol, it all depends how much you have, how often you have it, exluding all illicit drugs that are a chemical concoxtion from hell. Not everyone has the ability to meditate in the spiritual way or even pray, some people have a bit of wine or marijuana and suddenly there praying, praising and worshipping the LORD or simply letting go and letting GOD and listening for his voice, who is to say that is less holy or more holy than doing it with out a substance, God created all these plants for a reason and gave us the wisdom to create alcohol, not that all that man has created can be used for good perhaps like condoms but for the most everything man creates is neutral and can be used for good or evil, that what I think anyway. Jesus used the earth to heal the blind mans eyes, he spat in the clay and wiped it in his eyes, perhaps physical eyes or spiritual eyes of the heart I don't know, perhaps both? Just something to think about.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

but I do lean towards that it is better without recreational drugs and alcohol for me personally, I have learnt that through experience but I can not judge others who use it for whatever reason medicinal or not, I can judge there actions and sins but perhaps not there drug or alcohol use unless it is in excess as being the cause of any serious problems in there lives personally or the community as a whole. You know how the bible says " do not swear upon anything in heaven or upon the earth." I would be careful not to blame or judge anything on gods green earth as being the cause of sin, destruction and lies.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

In the ancient world and time of Christ, and certain cultures today, people drink alcohol not to get drunk but as we would drink juice. Its just a nutritional thing for them. In the Bible it says not to get drunk so moderation is key here. But when people are having alcohol in this way, they are not seeking experiences. But with marijuana isn't it always experience and pleasure based in the motive? That is what concerns me because Catholic teaching shows that eating or drinking SOLELY for pleasure (like when not hungry or to get drunk) is wrong. Having wine because you are thirsty and it's what your culture does has a different motive.

It just seems like the logic we apply to food drink and other things isn't getting applied to marijuana. But I think that is inconsistent?

I m trying to figure it out actually. I'm debating in order to figure out, to see what people's responses are

​

I think the whole drink for nutrition and because the water is putrid is a crock. Though supposedly red wine in moderation is healthy, and moderation of most things outside of water and food means not done daily, and with the whole putrid water thing you can boil water for 9 mins and it kills 99.9% of germs,bacteria and disease, so I kind of don't believe the popular putrid water reason. I do believe the jewish religious drunk a very weak wine, perhaps around the equivalent of 2% alcohol content so it was very hard to get drunk on it, you would have to drink a huge amount to get drunk. But pleasure is also not the enemy, the church does not teach that, I don't know where you get that from that is a Muslim philosophy by the way that pleasure is evil.

[Archaeology cat]

​

I think the whole drink for nutrition and because the water is putrid is a crock. Though supposedly red wine in moderation is healthy, and moderation of most things outside of water and food means not done daily, and with the whole putrid water thing you can boil water for 9 mins and it kills 99.9% of germs,bacteria and disease, so I kind of don't believe the popular putrid water reason. I do believe the jewish religious drunk a very weak wine, perhaps around the equivalent of 2% alcohol content so it was very hard to get drunk on it, you would have to drink a huge amount to get drunk. But pleasure is also not the enemy, the church does not teach that, I don't know where you get that from that is a Muslim philosophy by the way that pleasure is evil.

​Um, if you live in a place where clean water is a luxury, then drinking alcohol instead of water makes perfect sense. Yes, you can boil water, but what if the only available water source if 2 miles away walking, and what if you can't afford to burn enough to boil water just to drink? And yes, wine does have health benefits. For one, it counteracts listeria, for example. 

I'm not sure about the alcohol content of the Israeli wine. But I'd argue that it was very possible to get drunk on it, considering we have examples of that (Lot and Noah for example). We do know that Roman wine at the time of Jesus was strong, though. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

​Um, if you live in a place where clean water is a luxury, then drinking alcohol instead of water makes perfect sense. Yes, you can boil water, but what if the only available water source if 2 miles away walking, and what if you can't afford to burn enough to boil water just to drink? And yes, wine does have health benefits. For one, it counteracts listeria, for example. 

I'm not sure about the alcohol content of the Israeli wine. But I'd argue that it was very possible to get drunk on it, considering we have examples of that (Lot and Noah for example). We do know that Roman wine at the time of Jesus was strong, though. 

I never said you can't get drunk off weak wine, and I understand your point about mixing strong wine with dirty water when you have not enough fuel to boil water, and yeah I guess it's possible that they did but it is still more an urban myth as far as I'm aware than a solid fact, and also an excuse to continue to abuse alcohol within the church. I'm not saying don't drink alcohol but don't use the excuse that the Israelis used to mix there dirty water with strong wine, your water is not dirty. And did you know that there is a little well known verse in the O.T that says pray for rain in spring and water, best time for fruit trees I think, good ripening sun in​ summer and mild winters, when there are less clouds about, may have had something to do with the grapes and a law of man, though for a catholic Christian grapes are very important for the blood of Christ and perhaps it is not a law of man at all.

[Nunsense]

I never said you can't get drunk off weak wine, and I understand your point about mixing strong wine with dirty water when you have not enough fuel to boil water, and yeah I guess it's possible that they did but it is still more an urban myth as far as I'm aware than a solid fact, and also an excuse to continue to abuse alcohol within the church. I'm not saying don't drink alcohol but don't use the excuse that the Israelis used to mix there dirty water with strong wine, your water is not dirty. And did you know that there is a little well known verse in the O.T that says pray for rain in spring and water, best time for fruit trees I think, good ripening sun in​ summer and mild winters, when there are less clouds about, may have had something to do with the grapes and a law of man, though for a catholic Christian grapes are very important for the blood of Christ and perhaps it is not a law of man at all.

​Tab, you have a problem with alcohol abuse but not everyone does. A lot of us can have a glass of wine or a beer and not feel a need to drink until we are drunk. God made wine to cheer man's heart - it says so in the Bible. He didn't just make it to substitute for water. He wanted to 'cheer' us. Maybe that's why we say 'cheers' when we make a toast. Alcohol is not evil - abusing it is. But not everyone has that problem. It is a real cross to be an alcoholic but that doesn't mean that everyone needs to give up alcohol.

 

[Archaeology cat]

I certainly wouldn't say knowing the history of alcohol is an excuse to abuse it. Perhaps some use it in that way, but that is neither the norm nor the intent, which is part of what I tried, and failed, to convey. If you look over the course of history, over all the world, people have drunk alcohol socially, sometimes instead of water or just in addition to it, even for nutrition and health (eg: the Egyptians included beer in the grain ration for the workers; and the health benefits of some alcoholic beverages when enjoyed in moderation). If a person cannot have even one drink without being tempted to abuse it, then, by all means, it is best to abstain completely. One of my family members is a recovered alcoholic and, even with being sober over 20 years, will not have even a sip now so as not to be tempted. I think that's great for him. I have never felt such a temptation, though, as I despise feeling out of control, so 1-2 drinks is my absolute limit at any time. 

[CrossCuT]

Hmm I guess I've never felt out of control when I've been drunk...more just loopy and then I fell asleep.

it's different for everyone and my personal experience has no weight on my thoughts of its morality but it's just an interesting think for me to think on. Maybe i haven't been drunk enough? Haha

[Nunsense]

Hmm I guess I've never felt out of control when I've been drunk...more just loopy and then I fell asleep.

it's different for everyone and my personal experience has no weight on my thoughts of its morality but it's just an interesting think for me to think on. Maybe i haven't been drunk enough? Haha

​Actually I get very sleepy when I drink alcohol too! I am a happy drunk though but I don't like getting too drunk because the next day I feel tired and sick and wishing I hadn't done it. I much prefer just to have a glass or two of wine and leave it at that.

[Era Might]

​Not always true. Besides the Biblical examples of Noah and Lot, there are lots of ancient examples of people drinking to get drunk. Look at some Greek painted pottery. 

Fun fact: part of the grain ration for the pyramid builders was beer. Another fun fact: we have written records from some of the work villages, including work rosters and such. There's definitely an example of someone not coming in to work because he was drunk. 

​Anacreon had a reputation as a composer of hymns, as well as of those bacchanalian and amatory lyrics which are commonly associated with his name. Two short hymns to Artemis and Dionysus, consisting of eight and eleven lines respectively, stand first amongst his few undisputed remains, as printed by recent editors. But hymns, especially when addressed to such deities as Aphrodite, Eros and Dionysus, are not so very unlike what we call "Anacreontic" poetry as to make the contrast of style as great as the word might seem to imply. The tone of Anacreon's lyric effusions has probably led to an unjust estimate, by both ancients and moderns, of the poet's personal character. The "triple worship" of the Muses, Wine and Love, ascribed to him as his religion in an old Greek epigram,^[5] may have been as purely professional in the two last cases as in the first, and his private character on such points was probably neither much better nor worse than that of his contemporaries. Athenaeusremarks acutely that he seems at least to have been sober when he wrote. His character was an issue, because, according to Pausanias, his statue on the Acropolis of Athens depicts him as drunk.^[6] He himself strongly repudiates, as Horace does, the brutal characteristics of intoxication as fit only for barbarians andScythians.^[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacreon

[MarysLittleFlower]

To clarify, I never said (or meant to say) that pleasure is a sin. I meant that seeking pleasure for its own sake is not a perfect approach. For example the Saints sought God's Will, not pleasure, even if something was in fact an enjoyment.

[Guest]

I just wanted to say one last thing. I'm against drug use. I've been reading about dmt lately and watching videos on it. It opens doors to the spiritual world. I would never try it. Just like in my 33 years I never tried lsd or drugs like that. I haven't drank in 18 months and I will no longer comment on marijuana. After thinking on this a lot lately I feel as if someone should only use if they have a medical card. If it's legal somewhere they will have to figure that out. I firmly believe as the Bible says we should stay sober because the devil is out to destroy us. I was also reminded of these scriptures tonight. God bless.

•Anyone who loves another brother or sister is living in the light and does not cause others to stumble. 1 John 2:10

•It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. Romans 14:21

[Guest]

 

Some religions, yes, as in shamanism. In my experience trance like states are dangerous and open one up to the influences of the occult. Catholicism rightly teaches that perfection lies in the will and not in any state of altered consciousness.

Been learning about dmt. It's produced in our bodies. It's the strongest psychedelic drug out there. The experience is on the same level of a nde (near death experience). Atheist who do it tend to question if other dimensions really exist after its over. Dmt is called the spirit molocule. Users go in a trance. All experiences seem to lead to meeting gods, aliens, super beings with a higher conscious aka the occult.

[little2add]

Been learning about dmt. It's produced in our bodies. It's the strongest psychedelic drug out there. The experience is on the same level of a nde (near death experience). Atheist who do it tend to question if other dimensions really exist after its over. Dmt is called the spirit molocule. Users go in a trance. All experiences seem to lead to meeting gods, aliens, super beings with a higher conscious aka the occult.

Taking such a powerful psychedelic poison like Dmt is crazy-and- stupid

 

 

[Winchester]

Taking such a powerful psychedelic poison like Dmt is crazy-and- stupid

 

 

​It's obvious that DMT isn't inherently a poisonous substance. It's produced and processed by the body. There could be a point at which levels could prove harmful in some way.