Teaching Muslim Children To Hate The Jews

[Nihil Obstat]

That reminds me of a lovely picture that was posted on NLM once.....
Here's that picture from a different source:
[img]http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/most-holy-sacrifice-of-the-mass.jpg[/img]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='19 February 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1266603492' post='2059513']
I know you're trying to infer something, but I'm not sure where you're coming from.
[/quote]
Imply.



And Winnie, you've made some great points in this thread. My +1s of the day have gone to you.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1266622008' post='2059708']
That reminds me of a lovely picture that was posted on NLM once.....
Here's that picture from a different source:
[img]http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/most-holy-sacrifice-of-the-mass.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I have seen that wonderful picture in many places.

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]Imply.[/quote]

Yarr, ty

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='20 February 2010 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1266644071' post='2059835']
Yarr, ty
[/quote]
Don't worry about it.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1266622008' post='2059708']
That reminds me of a lovely picture that was posted on NLM once.....
Here's that picture from a different source:
[img]http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/most-holy-sacrifice-of-the-mass.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

THAT is beautiful

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' date='20 February 2010 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1266683028' post='2059943']
THAT is beautiful
[/quote]
And it explains the Mass without a single word

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='19 February 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1266603772' post='2059522']
I find nothing beautiful in a religious ideology that openly denies the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation.
[/quote]
Beauty in Islam:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Lilllabettt/BlueMosque4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Lilllabettt/interior-c-damon-lynch.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Lilllabettt/6a00d8341d638e53ef01053591aa7b970c-.jpg[/img]

Islamic poetry:

[quote]by Sheikh Muzzafer Ozak:

O My Generous Master!

You created this servant of Yours and
brought him into being from a drop of water.
I do not even have the right to say I love You,
and yet I do love You. I always remember You.
I know that even my being able to remember You
is also due to Your guidance. My mentioning Your
Name of Majesty left me dizzy, bewildered, and
amazed.
Is it possible to imagine anyone in this world
loving the Divinity and not becoming intoxicated with
such affection? So great a blessing is affection that
even if its possessor should stray into the wilderness,
the fire of his love would not allow him to feel the heat of
the desert.
Should the lover fall into the fire, the heat of his
love would extinguish that fire. The fire of love would cause
the poles and glaciers to melt. If mountains and boulders were
piled upon the back of the lover, the fire of his love would
prevent his feeling the weight of the load. Affection makes a
person forget about hunger and thirst, and keeps him on the
road of love. [/quote]

From the Qur'an:

[quote]
‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’
(al-Furqan 25: 63)

He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
(59:21-24)

[/quote]

etc. etc. etc.


If you do not see [u]any [/u]beauty in Islam, then you are not looking.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='19 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1266603492' post='2059513']
I know you're trying to infer something, but I'm not sure where you're coming from. Look at my posts Kolbe, I'm trying to explain why I believe islam is false from a historical perspective. I'm not sure it has anything to do with getting even or being Catholic, neither of which I am (yet ).
[/quote]


No. He is trying to "imply" something. You are trying to "infer" something. Impliers send information and then receivers "infer" from it. Infer and imply are not interchangeable. See the difference?

You are also wrong about the troll thing, noobie. I do not have rainbow hair.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='20 February 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1266705515' post='2060072']
Beauty in Islam:

If you do not see [u]any [/u]beauty in Islam, then you are not looking.
[/quote]
I think you two are talking about two different kinds of beauty.

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]No. He is trying to "imply" something. You are trying to "infer" something. Impliers send information and then receivers "infer" from it. Infer and imply are not interchangeable. See the difference?[/quote]

Typo, please relax a bit.

No one said there wasn't any beauty in Islam. I'd love to see the blue mosque in Istanbul, though admittedly after I see Hagia Sophia. I've said a few times now, I was providing a historical criticism of the formation of Islam and how it inadvertently results in a systematic sort of violence. It really doesn't have anything to do with your philosophical or cultural appreciation of Islamdom.

[MIKolbe]

[quote]I've said a few times now, I was providing a historical criticism of the formation of Islam and how it inadvertently results in a systematic sort of violence.[/quote]

Can you explain this further, please? More specifically the inadvertenticism....

[KeenanParkerII]

Surely,

As I'm sure you know, Muhammad received his revelations over a long period of time. The "dispensation" changed over time, beginning with short spiritual messages and becoming more legalistic over time. A lot of the time it was based on nucleated narratives, reciting bits of stories here and bits of culture there, some of which was based on Bedouin tradition and some of which was based on Christian or Jewish tradition from Syria. The continuity of the message was again interrupted by personal revelations concerning Muhammad's personal life. So, when Uthman compiled the Qur'anic canon under the council of four, the end product was contradictory on some counts, negated in places, and was occasionally inconsistent.

We don't know exactly when, but in order that the Qur'an be recognized as divine there developed a necessary understanding that God's dispensation can change; today he blesses the battle of Badr, tmr he denies it. Such is his will. Otherwise the dispensation is invalid. So, chronological interpretation of the Qur'an is very important. Perhaps early on in the dispensation, during a particularly militant phase of expansion, Allah justified the killing of non-Muslims. Then later Allah rejects such killing, such as here: ‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’ Then let us assume later still that Allah once again justifies killing non-muslims. The last dispensation takes precedence and renders the previous null and void.

What arises from this is a systematic problem of interpretation, not that it is impossible, but problematic. Anything less than an exhaustive and absolute study of all the interpretations of the Qur'an, which all the various Muslim groups must accept, will result in fragmentation and the development of militant groups intent on their own interpretation. In short, they do not have a magisterium. Imagine the Protestant Church if you will, each with its own interpretation, but with a religious dispensation closer to that of the Old Testament and, specifically, a problematic system of interpretation. Of course, I don't think Muhammad had this in mind, but he didn't appoint any system of leadership, so it's an inadvertent development.

Edited February 20, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[MIKolbe]

that makes more sense...

in your previous statement it read (to me) as if the violence itself was inadvertent. Which I doubt...

I think many a muslim would really really advertently want to do violence.

[KeenanParkerII]

Oh, yeah, there are definitely some pretty explicit calls to violence in the Qur'an! Culturally, interpretatively, systematically, I don't think Islam is reconcilable with peace, unless of course everything is Muslim.