Reality Check For Religious

[Bennn]

A community cat would be awesome. When I was at the monastery last year they had a huge dog. I loved him but he could be kinda annoying because he broke the monastic silence and ate of the table. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img] (Yes, he was that big)

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='16 June 2010 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1276709894' post='2129903']
But, keep the Carmelites in their own hermitages, so that they can feel free to have ecstacies and visions as much as they (or Christ) wants, but won't interfere with the sleep of the rest of us.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif[/img] yes, of course...in our tree-hermitages...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

oh wouldn't it be nice if my tree was right above I of L's hermitage [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]

Edited June 16, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[Bennn]

[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='16 June 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1276724913' post='2130088']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif[/img] yes, of course...in our tree-hermitages...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

oh wouldn't it be nice if my tree was right above I of L's hermitage [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Yes, then you could send her messages through the chimney.

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='Bennn' date='16 June 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1276726760' post='2130109']
Yes, then you could send her messages through the chimney.
[/quote]


[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif[/img] I think we'd form a somewhat modern version of the Desert Fathers. or in the Phemale case, Desert Mothers?


speaking of which, here's proof that not all hermits are alike and that they get along... I think this article about the Desert Abbas and Ammas, was written by...by...dare I say it?!...A JESUIT! [url="http://www.sjweb.info/documents/cis/pdfenglish/200511004en.pdf"]what the S.J has to say[/url] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shock.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif[/img]


sample: One day, a visitor came to Arsenius . On being left alone with the recluse (Arsenius), that man felt uneasy and simply went away. Visiting Abba Moses, the same person felt welcomed; he thus stayed and enjoyed himself. Another monk was looking at both scenes, and, by the end was deeply puzzled. the latter dreamt of both Arsenius and Moses on different boats sailing down the Nile; on his boat, Arsenius enjoyed the presence of God's spirit in peace and solitude, while Moses relished honey-cakes [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] with many of God's angels! Solitude and hospitality can both guide the individual on his lifelong journey and ultimately lead toward the same God.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='16 June 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1276724913' post='2130088']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif[/img] yes, of course...in our tree-hermitages...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

oh wouldn't it be nice if my tree was right above I of L's hermitage [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]
[/quote]

[quote name='Bennn' date='16 June 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1276726760' post='2130109']
Yes, then you could send her messages through the chimney.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Won't you please have pity on this poor soul who has a (so far) incurable sleep disorder in which her body wakes her up constantly throughout the night, even without outside noises? And, when you add in outside noises, it is even worse. If nothing else, loud religous ecstasies would scare my cats.

I promise that the next day I will listen as attentively as I can to your reports of what you and God got up to the night before. And, every morning, I'll look eagerly to see what wisdom my "chimney mail" has for me that day!

Whoever thought that Carmelites would enjoy playing practical jokes on wannabe Jesuits? I can't help my tendencies--I was born on St. Ignatius of Loyola's feast day! And, I think my fetal self made the choice to be born on that day, because I wasn't due for another week, but arrived early.

Be kind to me, or I'll write a book entitled, "The Carmelites are Up a Tree." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif[/img]

Clearly, community life is going to have its challenges, even among Phatmassers. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='16 June 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1276730840' post='2130137']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Won't you please have pity on this poor soul who has a (so far) incurable sleep disorder in which her body wakes her up constantly throughout the night, even without outside noises? And, when you add in outside noises, it is even worse. If nothing else, loud religous ecstasies would scare my cats.

I promise that the next day I will listen as attentively as I can to your reports of what you and God got up to the night before. And, every morning, I'll look eagerly to see what wisdom my "chimney mail" has for me that day!

Whoever thought that Carmelites would enjoy playing practical jokes on wannabe Jesuits? I can't help my tendencies--I was born on St. Ignatius of Loyola's feast day! And, I think my fetal self made the choice to be born on that day, because I wasn't due for another week, but arrived early.

Be kind to me, or I'll write a book entitled, "The Carmelites are Up a Tree." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif[/img]

Clearly, community life is going to have its challenges, even among Phatmassers. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]
[/quote]

AWWW, that's so cute!!! *sigh* your "fetal self!" [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/camp.gif[/img] haha honestly?! who can resist stories of "when I was little..."???

Well, when I was little, I thought a Carmelite was a candy bar [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img] ...with caramel in it.



....Hey! wait a sec, [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shock.gif[/img] that Jesuit wrote an amazing article. apparently he's the head of the Dogma Department at the Faculty of Theology of the Gregorian University in Rome, Italy. AAAIIIIiiii don't know if he'd be one to laugh at those Jesuit jokes...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]



oh and my first chimney mail:

I HEART YOU MY DEAREST SISTER IN CHRIST, Ignatian yet Dominican hermit?! spiritual hug! and spiritual high-five! feel free to visit me at the tree-house grille (once every three months) sometime. how's that new book going? peace! in JMJTJTT (Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Teresa, John, Therese, Teresa-de los Andes)........


[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/getaclue.gif[/img] too much?

[vee]

I'm going to try to make a top ten reasons to be a Carmelite so here goes. Feel free to add any.

10 brown doesn't show stains so easily
9 you won't miss tv with all the ecstacies and visions
8. when you say you're going to " hit the hay" you mean it literally
7. siesta is on the horarium
6. no worrying about having to eat donated liver
5. Carmel/caramel jokes
4.
3.
2

drum roll.........
1 actually order of secret ninjas

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='vee8' date='16 June 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1276734881' post='2130165']
I'm going to try to make a top ten reasons to be a Carmelite so here goes. Feel free to add any.

10 brown doesn't show stains so easily
9 you won't miss tv with all the ecstacies and visions
8. when you say you're going to " hit the hay" you mean it literally
7. siesta is on the horarium
6. no worrying about having to eat donated liver
5. Carmel/caramel jokes
4.
3.
2

drum roll.........
1 actually order of secret ninjas [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif[/img]
[/quote]


+ pretty much with the Scapular, it's like... "Go to Free-Parking"

Edited June 17, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='16 June 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1276736593' post='2130176']
+ pretty much with the Scapular, it's like... "Go to Free-Parking"
[/quote]

Because if someone asks "Which ones are they?" you can say "Like St. Therese."

[Thomist-in-Training]

P.S. Did you guys know St. Anthony actually did live in a tree at the end of his life!? It was recommended to him for his health. Isn't that awesomely nuts?

http://www.saintanthonyofpadua.net/portale/camposampiero.asp

[quote]Outside the walls of the castle there was a hermitage where the friars used to stay, and with them, St. Anthony. However, St. Anthony decided he wanted more peace and quiet, so he had a small tree-house built in the branches of a walnut tree. "The man of God, having one day admired the beauty of the tree, immediately, upon inspiration of the Spirit, decided to have a cell constructed in the walnut tree, because the tree offered unbelievable solitude and quiet for contemplation. As soon as he heard tell of the Saint's wish from the other friars, the nobleman tied down poles to the branches and, with his own hands, constructed a cell of mats.[/quote]

[vee]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='16 June 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1276737832' post='2130187']
Because if someone asks "Which ones are they?" you can say "Like St. Therese."
[/quote]

Therese

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='16 June 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1276738182' post='2130191']
P.S. Did you guys know St. Anthony actually did live in a tree at the end of his life!? It was recommended to him for his health. Isn't that awesomely nuts?

http://www.saintanthonyofpadua.net/portale/camposampiero.asp
[/quote]

That's [i]precisely[/i] why I mentioned Franciscans along with the Carmelites.

I was about to leave the tree-hermitages to the Carmelites, then I had remembered, "OH! SAINT ANTHONY LIVED IN A TREE!!!" (Yes, that made me [i]quite [/i]excited to remember... hahahhaa!)

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='16 June 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1276740378' post='2130199']
Therese
[/quote]



Edit:

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1227/856727818_188a308166.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.pestaola.gr/img/guinness_beer.jpg[/img]

Edited June 17, 2010 by laetitia crucis

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='16 June 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1276740742' post='2130200']
That's [i]precisely[/i] why I mentioned Franciscans along with the Carmelites.

I was about to leave the tree-hermitages to the Carmelites, then I had remembered, "OH! SAINT ANTHONY LIVED IN A TREE!!!" (Yes, that made me [i]quite [/i]excited to remember... hahahhaa!)
[/quote]

Maybe you'll be the first Dominican to live in a tree

I feel really dumb for asking this but why do the Carmelites have to have tree hermitages too? Im more in favor of a hobbity hermitage...

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='16 June 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1276741591' post='2130206']
Maybe you'll be the first Dominican to live in a tree

I feel really dumb for asking this but why do the Carmelites have to have tree hermitages too? Im more in favor of a hobbity hermitage...
[/quote]

Well... ...I suppose I thought it appropriate because Carmelites always seem to be ascended to the heights of Divine Intimacy compared to other Orders' saints, ya know?

After all, John of the Cross is the [i]Doctor Mysticus[/i].

However, I would be happy to have you within the hobbity confines of hobbit-hole hermitages. We could even have second breakfasts and elevenses together.

Edit: If I could build a hobbit house in a TREE... that'd be FANTASTIC!!! It's like having the best of both worlds...

I call dibs on the moon, though... that is, if humans ever come to inhabit it in my lifetime. [IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/vulcan.gif[/IMG] [size="1"]Or any starship for that matter.. just in case. Teehee.[/size]

Edited June 17, 2010 by laetitia crucis

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='16 June 2010 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1276740798' post='2130201']


Edit:

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1227/856727818_188a308166.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.pestaola.gr/img/guinness_beer.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

LOlL aaaaaaw you remembered!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='16 June 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1276742582' post='2130216']
LOlL aaaaaaw you remembered!
[/quote]

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='16 June 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1276741866' post='2130208']
Well... ...I suppose I thought it appropriate because Carmelites always seem to be ascended to the heights of Divine Intimacy compared to other Orders' saints, ya know?

After all, John of the Cross is the [i]Doctor Mysticus[/i]. [/quote]

Divine huh? And John of the what? What a nutty order...

[quote]However, I would be happy to have you within the hobbity confines of hobbit-hole hermitages. We could even have second breakfasts and elevenses together.[/quote]

Make it so

[quote]Edit: If I could build a hobbit house in a TREE... that'd be FANTASTIC!!! It's like having the best of both worlds...

I call dibs on the moon, though... that is, if humans ever come to inhabit it in my lifetime. [IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/vulcan.gif[/IMG] [size="1"]Or any starship for that matter.. just in case. Teehee.[/size][/quote]

I shall acknowledge your dibs calling for such things in perpetuity.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='16 June 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1276743359' post='2130220']
Divine huh? And John of the what? What a nutty order...



Make it so



I shall acknowledge your dibs calling for such things in perpetuity.
[/quote]




[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/excellent-frog.jpg[/IMG]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='16 June 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1276741866' post='2130208']
Well... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think_head.gif[/img] ...I suppose I thought it appropriate because Carmelites always seem to be ascended to the heights of Divine Intimacy compared to other Orders' saints, ya know?

After all, John of the Cross is the [i]Doctor Mysticus[/i]. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/notworthy2.gif[/img]

However, I would be happy to have you within the hobbity confines of hobbit-hole hermitages. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img] We could even have second breakfasts and elevenses together.
[/quote]

If it weren't for my physical limitations, I'd love to live in a tree.

But, after the last posts, I realized that, even though it would mean that no messages would come down my chimney, it would be better to build the tree hermitages AWAY from the chimneys of the hermitages on the ground. Fire (other than the fire of the Holy Spirit) tends to be a real downer.

Also, would you be allowed to be a Carmelite, and not be totally cloistered behind grilles/bars, as long as you remained within the monastery grounds? Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to take meals or have recreation together. Aren't there some Carmelite nuns who aren't totally cloistered behind screens and grills? Or maybe all the Carmelites could be designated as extern sisters so they could eat dinner with us. Alternatively, I guess you could be Carmelite Sisters who live an horarium that is essentially that of Carmelite nun (minus the screens).

Just setting this thing up would be setting a lot of new precedents, such as members of various Orders living together, unless we could set up a new Order that somehow incorporated aspects of the Dominicans/Benedictines/Franciscans/Carmelites/Jesuits (LOL!)--we're going to get Jesuit Sisters yet, maybe the Jesuits have just been waiting for the chance! There would be a lot of compromises, but maybe the Rule of the Order could make certain things optional (such loud expressions of ecstacy in Christ). (The Carmelite hermitages would be sound-proofed. LOL)

As for how we'd support ourselves, since this is an imaginary Order anyway, I'm including some imaginary incredibly rich donors who have always wanted to support a project like this. We would do work, but what we did as work could then be more dependent on what we wanted to do rather than what we HAVE to do to support ourselves. I don't want to make soap, but the Summit Dominican soaps smell WONDERFUL! Even if we didn't have a "soap ministry" we'd have to get our soaps from the Summit Dominicans, as part of our support of other Orders. For those with student loans, our donors would make the payments while the Sister/nun was in formation, then pay off the loan when the Sister/nun made permanent vows.

I don't think we would want to live a rich lifestyle in any way, but building hermitages costs money, and it would be nice not to have money be a huge worry, in fact, be able to give some away, even if we didn't spend much on ourselves. Also, combining so many traditions could cost a little more money. For example, at dinner, we'd need to include a vegetarian option for the Carmelites, as well as a meat option for the non-vegetarians.

Also, I'd really love to have a pretty church. Not fancy pretty, with lots of gold gilt, etc. But, I've seen some chapels that are so plain they look like Scottish Presbyterian houses of worship, with no ornaments at all. There must be somewhere in-between, so we could have a cozy chapel with some stained glass windows etc. Somewhere that you'd truly praying in for a good part of the day. Someday, when we can't think of anything interesting to talk about, we could find pictures of pretty churches on the Internet and share them with each other as ideas for our "community."