Catholic Without Rcia?

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1303175530' post='2229995']
Typo.

One of my friends whom I met in the Newman club said I would probably be bored in it, so I thought I'd look it up.
[/quote]

you didn't know. hugz

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1303262112' post='2230391']
Wouldn't say so... went to a couple of Catholic youth events/retreats. I suppose if there's any practical truth to the eHow article, it is definitely possible to get around RCIA, as long as you receive the sacraments.
[/quote]
I frequently met with a Catholic campus minister and hung out at a Catholic Campus Ministry Center my first two years in college. I'm not sure how many Bible studies were held, but I suppose to be fair it was more educational discussion one-on-one and social stuff and a couple of Bible studies plus one retreat that I went on. To be fair I have since only attended up to two events per quarter most of the time when returning to uni. I learned so much from that minister, but we both left my old university at the same time and I never got back in touch.

Were you baptized and confirmed Lutheran with a long history of regular church attendance/fellowship/some service all-be-it not Catholic and slightly studied under an Orthodox deacon? (Let's test how in my shoes you are.)

Edited April 21, 2011 by Light and Truth

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1303346403' post='2230702']
I frequently met with a Catholic campus minister and hung out at a Catholic Campus Ministry Center my first two years in college. I'm not sure how many Bible studies were held, but I suppose to be fair it was more educational discussion one-on-one and social stuff and a couple of Bible studies plus one retreat that I went on. To be fair I have since only attended up to two events per quarter most of the time when returning to uni. I learned so much from that minister, but we both left my old university at the same time and I never got back in touch.

Were you baptized and confirmed Lutheran with a long history of regular church attendance/fellowship/some service all-be-it not Catholic and slightly studied under an Orthodox deacon? (Let's test how in my shoes you are.)
[/quote]

Hmm... my first Bible study in college was part of Intervarsity and co-lead by a Baptist and a Catholic (not that I thought anything of it at the time). Yes, baptized and confirmed Lutheran and while I never studied under any Orthodox clergy, a couple from my old Baptist church actually ended up being received into the Orthodox Church a year or two after I became Catholic. Definitely learned a lot to appreciate about Eastern Christianity from attending their parish a few times. RCIA didn't teach me much theologically, but I enjoyed hearing different peoples' stories about God drew them into the Church, sometimes over many years or even decades. Not every conversion story must reference the Church Fathers

[Cam42]

In my experience, it is much better for someone to go through individual instruction as opposed to RCIA. RCIA tends to slant liberal and doesn't give a full representation of the total of Catholicism, just that which has been promoted in the last 40+ years.

Unless you know the priest who is teaching the RCIA program and can show that he will give 100% orthodox instruction through RCIA, I would seek out a priest who will do that and take instruction from him.

If RCIA is 100% orthodox and is taught by a priest who will cover all the necessary requisites, I would shy away.

My opinion.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303540051' post='2231330']
In my experience, it is much better for someone to go through individual instruction as opposed to RCIA. RCIA tends to slant liberal and doesn't give a full representation of the total of Catholicism, just that which has been promoted in the last 40+ years.

Unless you know the priest who is teaching the RCIA program and can show that he will give 100% orthodox instruction through RCIA, I would seek out a priest who will do that and take instruction from him.

If RCIA is 100% orthodox and is taught by a priest who will cover all the necessary requisites, I would shy away.

My opinion.
[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to lump RCIA with liberal trends. There are liberal RCIA programs... and there are orthodox RCIA programs. I went through a fantastic RCIA. I now teach RCIA and it's certainly not 'liberal'. It's just like anything the Church right now... you can find liberal and you can find orthodox.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1303541246' post='2231334']
I don't think it's fair to lump RCIA with liberal trends. There are liberal RCIA programs... and there are orthodox RCIA programs. I went through a fantastic RCIA. I now teach RCIA and it's certainly not 'liberal'. It's just like anything the Church right now... you can find liberal and you can find orthodox.
[/quote]
True. After I converted, I sat in on an RCIA class (most who were converting at that time were in uni, and the priest thought my presence might help, since I was in grad school), and it was completely orthodox. The priest was really good.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1303539595' post='2231329'] Not every conversion story must reference the Church Fathers
[/quote]
What do you mean?

[Cam42]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1303541246' post='2231334']
I don't think it's fair to lump RCIA with liberal trends. There are liberal RCIA programs... and there are orthodox RCIA programs. I went through a fantastic RCIA. I now teach RCIA and it's certainly not 'liberal'. It's just like anything the Church right now... you can find liberal and you can find orthodox.
[/quote]

Sure it is. RCIA is not one universal set of teachings which every Catechumen must go through. Notice that I said that it tends to slant left, not that all do. I also said that if you could find one which is 100% orthodox then it is ok.

Right now the RCIA program could be anything from listening to Corapi all the way to studying [u]Catholicism[/u] by Fr. Richard McBrien. There is no consistency in how the program is administered and that is a problem. While you may be teaching an orthodox RCIA program that doesn't mean that the next parish over is.

Also, there is no need to tolerate anything in the Church which is not 100% orthodox. Again, this is my view and one that is certainly justifiable.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303565233' post='2231359']
Sure it is. RCIA is not one universal set of teachings which every Catechumen must go through. Notice that I said that it tends to slant left, not that all do. I also said that if you could find one which is 100% orthodox then it is ok.

Right now the RCIA program could be anything from listening to Corapi all the way to studying [u]Catholicism[/u] by Fr. Richard McBrien. There is no consistency in how the program is administered and that is a problem. While you may be teaching an orthodox RCIA program that doesn't mean that the next parish over is.

Also, there is no need to tolerate anything in the Church which is not 100% orthodox. Again, this is my view and one that is certainly justifiable.
[/quote]

The [i]Rite[/i] itself is universal. Although, as you say, the teaching that goes along with is left to the discretion of the pastor. The importance of RCIA in of itself is not so much in the teaching, but in the [i]Rite[/i]-- the process of conversion in and with the Church. The instruction is, in a sense, secondary. Certainly not to say that the instruction isn't important! On the contrary.

What I mean to say is that the instruction can take place in various ways-- through group classes, individual sessions with the priest, individual study of materials, etc. But the [i]Rite[/i] ought to be participated in by all (with rare exceptions). Technically speaking, one could go through the Rite up through receiving the sacraments without instruction, and then be catechized [i]after[/i] receiving the sacraments, during the period of mystagogy.

But that's what I mean when I say that the RCIA is not liberal or orthodox. It is a Rite of the Church, for the initiation of adults. The instruction (or lack thereof) that goes along with it is secondary.

[Cam42]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1303566445' post='2231365']
The [i]Rite[/i] itself is universal. Although, as you say, the teaching that goes along with is left to the discretion of the pastor. The importance of RCIA in of itself is not so much in the teaching, but in the [i]Rite[/i]-- the process of conversion in and with the Church. The instruction is, in a sense, secondary. Certainly not to say that the instruction isn't important! On the contrary.

What I mean to say is that the instruction can take place in various ways-- through group classes, individual sessions with the priest, individual study of materials, etc. But the [i]Rite[/i] ought to be participated in by all (with rare exceptions). Technically speaking, one could go through the Rite up through receiving the sacraments without instruction, and then be catechized [i]after[/i] receiving the sacraments, during the period of mystagogy.

But that's what I mean when I say that the RCIA is not liberal or orthodox. It is a Rite of the Church, for the initiation of adults. The instruction (or lack thereof) that goes along with it is secondary.
[/quote]

How in the world did the Church bring people into the Church before 1972. This [i]RITE[/i] as you put it, isn't a [i]RITE[/i] in the same sense as the Roman Rite or the Latin Rite, but rather it is an order of doing business. It is not mandatory of someone to go through the [i]RITE[/i] in order to become Catholic. It wasn't unitl 1988 that the USCCB (that non-binding organization) made it "official."

It is entirely possible that someone can be brought into the Church without going through the [i]RITE[/i] as envisioned by the current RCIA program. Also, the [i]RITE[/i] is not universal. The way that it is administered in one parish is not how it will be done in another. So, the [i]RITE[/i] has no consistency. Some of the scrutinies may be ommitted, some others may not. Some of the [i]RITE[/i] will be public, some of it not. It all depends on the pastor and that is wholly inconsistent of how a [i]RITE[/i] should be administered.

As I stated, it is possible for one to go through individual instruction and be brought into the Church without RCIA. I would strongly suggest seeking out the orthodoxy of the program that one is looking into and that he not engage in anything which is not 100% orthodox. If one cannot be found, I would suggest seeking out a priest who is known for being 100% faithful to Catholicism and receive instruction from him.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1303265047' post='2230416']
that sounds great!!

I'm more concerned with RCIA programs being taught by ex-nuns with a penchant for heresy.
[/quote]

Hey! Stop talking about my church!

[socalscout]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1303569683' post='2231371']
Hey! Stop talking about my church!
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Brother A., you posed this same question during your RCIA class? What insight can you give there?

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303568985' post='2231370']
How in the world did the Church bring people into the Church before 1972. This [i]RITE[/i] as you put it, isn't a [i]RITE[/i] in the same sense as the Roman Rite or the Latin Rite, but rather it is an order of doing business. It is not mandatory of someone to go through the [i]RITE[/i] in order to become Catholic. It wasn't unitl 1988 that the USCCB (that non-binding organization) made it "official."

It is entirely possible that someone can be brought into the Church without going through the [i]RITE[/i] as envisioned by the current RCIA program. Also, the [i]RITE[/i] is not universal. The way that it is administered in one parish is not how it will be done in another. So, the [i]RITE[/i] has no consistency. Some of the scrutinies may be ommitted, some others may not. Some of the [i]RITE[/i] will be public, some of it not. It all depends on the pastor and that is wholly inconsistent of how a [i]RITE[/i] should be administered.
[/quote]

Dude, calm down. Did you come back to phatmass just to get argumentative and zealous? Because that's what a lot of your posts seem to be so far.

I'm aware of when RCIA was instituted for the Church. And I wasn't making any claim that it's equivalent to a rite in the sense of Roman Rite. I also never said it was mandatory. But I [i]did[/i] say that one ought to go through it, because that is the norm set down for entrance in the Church today. And for good reason, I might add.

[Cam42]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1303571787' post='2231378']
Dude, calm down. Did you come back to phatmass just to get argumentative and zealous? Because that's what a lot of your posts seem to be so far.

I'm aware of when RCIA was instituted for the Church. And I wasn't making any claim that it's equivalent to a rite in the sense of Roman Rite. I also never said it was mandatory. But I [i]did[/i] say that one ought to go through it, because that is the norm set down for entrance in the Church today. And for good reason, I might add.
[/quote]

Zeal for the Catholic faith is not a bad thing. I am not arguing with you, I am making statements which are not inconsistent to Catholicism. I'm glad that you you know w.hen RCIA was instituted in the Church (I think that "for the Church" is a bit obtuse, as it is not mandatory, as you note, which I noted first.)

You think that one ought to go through it and that is fine, I think that also, which I have said all along, btw...IF it is 100% orthodox. IF it is not, then I suggest that one find a priest to get instruction from who is 100% orthodox. Which is what I have said for about the 5th time now. Do you disagree with that?

Also, I am completely calm. I have not been anything other than reasonable and I have stated that what I put forth is my opining. It is nothing that is set in stone, but rather it is what one Catholic can say to another. I'm sorry that you disagree with it, but it is just as valid a view as going through RCIA.

[eustace scrubb]

I'm tired of trying to find an RCIA program in this city that's orthodox. Easter came and went and I'm still not confirmed. I've done so much Catholic Apologetics (based on what I've read and studied) to Protestant non-denominational Christians and non-Christians that to have to go through RCIA [i]despite not being able to physically handle it (even through private study)[/i], drives me nuts. I fully understand needing to enter community with other Catholics and agree with that, but that just doesn't exist here. The only thing like that in my area is all the way across town, I lost my transportation to it, and I despite [b][i]repeated[/i][/b] requests for help, have been ignored. It's infuriating and frustrating. This is absolutely ridiculous. Do I have any other options???