Debra Little Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309463839' post='2261070'] Why would anyone bash you? That is not christian. On the other hand we assume that by designating yourself as catholic you accept the teaching of the Church in all things. [/quote] Of course I accept the teaching of the Church. I came back because the Lord told me to. It's where I belong. But more importantly it's the teachings of God's Word, not just the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Funerals have no effect on the disposition on the soul of the dead, but the implications of approval might have effect on the souls of the living. His homosexuality was such a well known fact and such an issue that it's in a public paper. It would no doubt have been flogged as approval of homosexuality and evidence that one can buy a funeral mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Whether they think so or not people are gay bashing and judging and no one has that right. Only God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1309390820' post='2260519'] Captain Kirk said it best in "A Taste of Armageddon": "All right. It's instinctive. The instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we won't kill today. That's all it takes--knowing that we won't kill.... today." [/quote] We don't have to fight our instincts. Only Obey God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1309464166' post='2261081'] 1) I'm sorry - the issue of homosexuality does bring many to unjustly treat those struggling with said problems. I'm sorry that you've seen friends and family thusly treated. But that's not the Church, that's members of the Church, who are fallible. I meant, do you know more about this specific story than what we've read in the news? Because all we've heard so far are just biased sides of the story. I'm sure we'll never hear the true facts, and so we'll never know who's distorting the story. Maybe the deceased is also a publicly known child-molester or murderer who died swearing that he would do it again. Or maybe he publicly recanted of his public immorality. The point is that we just don't know enough to say absolutely who is right and who is wrong. But regardless, the Catholic Church is right. The priest representing her could be wrong, but not the Church's moral teaching.[/quote] I am not privy to any special details about this incident. And it seems like we've moved beyond the initial incident anyway to a more broad discussion of why the Church chooses to do this. Try and keep up In any case, I am sure that this person is none of those ghastly things you mentioned, for they would surely have been brought to light. [quote]2) That's exactly my point - He refused to admonish or punish her, because He knew she had changed. If they were getting ready to stone her, and she was acting like a prostitute, Christ would not have saved her. He saved her because she repented.[/quote] LOL. Something tells me your interpretation of this passage is a little off, but whatever. Tomato tomAto. [quote]3) If you honestly believe you are right, then rejoice in your suffering for having done what you thought was right. I don't remember where It says, "Be either hot or cold. Do not be lukewarm...". [/quote] I'm here, aren't I? I said it in a previous thread, I have nothing but the utmost love and respect for Phatmass. This title has nothing to do with my faith or my Catholicness. I'm sure God will sort it out when I die and meet Him. I just hope my family and friends aren't treated with the same disrespect that this man's family was. While I am not gay, I see no difference between their sufferings and ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309464287' post='2261084'] Of course I accept the teaching of the Church. I came back because the Lord told me to. It's where I belong. But more importantly it's the teachings of God's Word, not just the Church. [/quote] Praise God! And that is Faith - believing in the Church not because what She says is true, but because of where Her authority comes from. [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1309464360' post='2261086'] Funerals have no effect on the disposition on the soul of the dead, but the implications of approval might have effect on the souls of the living. His homosexuality was such a well known fact and such an issue that it's in a public paper. It would no doubt have been flogged as approval of homosexuality and evidence that one can buy a funeral mass. [/quote] Thank you - well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309464241' post='2261082'] Uh huh. Then why would the Church deny the bereaved family a Catholic mass to honor their loved one? Because, let's be honest--once we're dead, you're gone and it doesn't matter the manner in which you are memorialized. Funerals and such are for the family and friends of the deceased. And denying them the opportunity to put their loved ones to rest in a Catholic manner punishes THEM for something they have nothing to do with (i.e.- the sexuality of their loved one). [/quote] Because the catholic wasn't a member of the church in good standing because he was PUBLICLY living in a sinful relationship. You don't get what you want if you flaunt the rules, there are consequences to behavior even if we pretend they are not there. Funerals are for the deceased person which is why we do a full Mass at a funeral even if nobody is there to mourn. Not everyone gets what they want even in death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309464622' post='2261096'] Because the catholic wasn't a member of the church in good standing because he was PUBLICLY living in a sinful relationship. You don't get what you want if you flaunt the rules, there are consequences to behavior even if we pretend they are not there. Funerals are for the deceased person which is why we do a full Mass at a funeral even if nobody is there to mourn. Not everyone gets what they want even in death. [/quote] Again, the funeral is more for the grieving than for the grieved. Not allowing them to grieve and memorialize according to their faith--i.e.- Catholicism-- because of the Church's opinion of the lifestyle of the deceased punishes THEM, not the deceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309464363' post='2261087'] Whether they think so or not people are gay bashing and judging and no one has that right. Only God. [/quote] No , no one in this thread has bashed anyone, honesty is not bashing. You are also a bit confused about "judging". There is nothing wrong with judging someone's behavior, however judgement of the HEART belongs to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309464806' post='2261099'] ...honesty is not bashing. You are also a bit confused... [/quote] If someone walked up to me on the street and said "Hey there Fat Man," they would be bashing me. Sure, they'd be speaking honestly--I am, in fact, overweight and a male-- but it is still disrespectful and mean. I think YOU are the one who is confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309464712' post='2261098'] Again, the funeral is more for the grieving than for the grieved. Not allowing them to grieve and memorialize according to their faith--i.e.- Catholicism-- because of the Church's opinion of the lifestyle of the deceased punishes THEM, not the deceased. [/quote] He didn't earn a catholic funeral by his behavior. They can certainly have Masses said for the repose of his soul and are free to attend them, but treating him as a faithful catholic gives scandal to those who do the right things and do not give in to public sin. I know the concept of standards of behavior and consequences are out of style and everyone thinks that we have a "right" to whatever we want but life in Christ and the Church doesn't work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309464363' post='2261087'] Whether they think so or not people are gay bashing and judging and no one has that right. Only God. [/quote] Provide quotes, that you may instruct others in your personal opinion of the statements that were gay bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309465104' post='2261103'] He didn't earn a catholic funeral by his behavior. They can certainly have Masses said for the repose of his soul and are free to attend them, but treating him as a faithful catholic gives scandal to those who do the right things and do not give in to public sin. I know the concept of standards of behavior and consequences are out of style and everyone thinks that we have a "right" to whatever we want but life in Christ and the Church doesn't work that way. [/quote] I dunno about you, but it wouldn't "scandalize" me if a gay person was afforded a Catholic funeral. What DOES scandalize me is seeing the Church, and its congregation, deliberately excluding and disrespecting people. That's not the Church I love, and it's not the attitude our Lord would want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Of course, the fact that we provided Edward Kennedy kind of harms credibility. SOB should have been excommunicated. Now [i]there's[/i] judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309464973' post='2261101'] If someone walked up to me on the street and said "Hey there Fat Man," they would be bashing me. Sure, they'd be speaking honestly--I am, in fact, overweight and a male-- but it is still disrespectful and mean. I think YOU are the one who is confused. [/quote] So the man calling you fat was mean for telling you the truth? Would you feel the same if it were your doctor? The Church is a doctor of the soul, but not all souls listen. Do you really mean is truth is only acceptable if it agrees with your own perception and what you want to hear? I really doubt that is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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