Debra Little Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309464973' post='2261101'] If someone walked up to me on the street and said "Hey there Fat Man," they would be bashing me. Sure, they'd be speaking honestly--I am, in fact, overweight and a male-- but it is still disrespectful and mean. I think YOU are the one who is confused. [/quote] I don't think so. I know so. Maybe you should read up on what is really gay bashing and what is not. And no, no one has the right to judge anything. behavior or someone's heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309465193' post='2261106'] I dunno about you, but it wouldn't "scandalize" me if a gay person was afforded a Catholic funeral. What DOES scandalize me is seeing the Church, and its congregation, deliberately excluding and disrespecting people. That's not the Church I love, and it's not the attitude our Lord would want. [/quote] The man in question disrespected the teachings of the church by publicly flaunting them. Jesus forgave sinners but He also said go and sin no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309465366' post='2261110'] So the man calling you fat was mean for telling you the truth? Would you feel the same if it were your doctor? The Church is a doctor of the soul, but not all souls listen. Do you really mean is truth is only acceptable if it agrees with your own perception and what you want to hear? I really doubt that is true. [/quote] Haha...I respect your consistence, and feel sorry that you fail to see the distinction. Calling me "fat man" is rude, mean and uncharitable, in the same way that someone calling you something rude and mean--even if it were true-- would be uncharitable. It's not like he came up to me and said "You know, I'm concerned about your diet and weight and the deleterious effect both have on your health. I would love to help you in any way that I can." No, in this hypothetical scenario, he bypassed charity and sensitivity in favor of disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309465461' post='2261111'] I don't think so. I know so. Maybe you should read up on what is really gay bashing and what is not. And no, no one has the right to judge anything. behavior or someone's heart. [/quote] Could you please explain then, what you mean by "gay bashing?" So, we can't say someone is doing something wrong if they kill another person? That's judging a behavior. We can't say that someone is doing something wrong if they are cheating on their spouse? That is judging a behavior. For that matter, you're judging that this is gay bashing. And you just said no one has the right to judge anything, so how can you make that judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309465461' post='2261111'] I don't think so. I know so. Maybe you should read up on what is really gay bashing and what is not. And no, no one has the right to judge anything. behavior or someone's heart. [/quote] Debra, I think you are misunderstanding me. I know what gay bashing is and I do not stand for it. My two best friends in the world--my sister and my buddy of 20 years-- are gay and I would crack the skull of anyone who insulted or treated them disrespectfully because of their sexuality. We're on the same team, Deb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309465461' post='2261111'] I don't think so. I know so. Maybe you should read up on what is really gay bashing and what is not. And no, no one has the right to judge anything. behavior or someone's heart. [/quote] Wrong. Judging behavior is NOT the same as judging ones heart. We are called to judge behavior all the time, this is why we have a legal system in the country and canon law in the church, and why parents teach their children right from wrong, because not all behavior is acceptable. This is also why we have confession because we have committed a sin ( as judged by the law of GOD) and we need to confess and repent and make amends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The Church doesn't exclude anyone. No one physically prevented him from entering a church to attend mass. He made the choice to not attend. No one refused him last rites, he did not ask for them. No one prevented him from entering the confessional. He chose to avoid reconciliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1309465695' post='2261117'] Could you please explain then, what you mean by "gay bashing?" So, we can't say someone is doing something wrong if they kill another person? That's judging a behavior. [/quote] There is no moral equivalence between murder and homosexuality. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309465800' post='2261124'] There is no moral equivalence between murder and homosexuality. Try again. [/quote] That is irrelevant. She said that you cannot judge a behavior. That would make it wrong to judge murder. That is incorrect. I was pointing out an inconsistency, not saying homosexuality = murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Unhelpful snark deleted. Edited June 30, 2011 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309465735' post='2261119'] Debra, I think you are misunderstanding me. I know what gay bashing is and I do not stand for it. My two best friends in the world--my sister and my buddy of 20 years-- are gay and I would crack the skull of anyone who insulted or treated them disrespectfully because of their sexuality. We're on the same team, Deb. [/quote] I would say you are both on the wrong team I too have members of my family with SSA, and I would never condone anyone being rude to them. However that doesn't mean I agree with their choices, but I love them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309465757' post='2261121'] Wrong. Judging behavior is NOT the same as judging ones heart. We are called to judge behavior all the time, this is why we have a legal system in the country and canon law in the church, and why parents teach their children right from wrong, because not all behavior is acceptable. This is also why we have confession because we have committed a sin ( as judged by the law of GOD) and we need to confess and repent and make amends. [/quote] Both things you cite--the legal system and confession-- entail people who are duly trained to judge and evaluate behaviors. You and I aren't party to any of that as it pertains to homosexuality. Of course, we could just meld the two together like Iran and just make it illegal to be gay. Then we wouldn't have to worry about anything, right? As long as we're judging [i]behavior[/i] and all... [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1309465883' post='2261126'] That is irrelevant. She said that you cannot judge a behavior. That would make it wrong to judge murder. That is incorrect. I was pointing out an inconsistency, not saying homosexuality = murder. [/quote] You are inferring that there is a relationship, whereas I am saying there's not. I can judge that grape jelly is the best kind of jelly in a PBJ, and I'd be right. Doesn't mean that I can say that that is an analogous relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309466007' post='2261131'] You are inferring that there is a relationship, whereas I am saying there's not. I can judge that grape jelly is the best kind of jelly in a PBJ, and I'd be right. Doesn't mean that I can say that that is an analogous relationship. [/quote] The only thing I am inferring is that the act of murdering someone is a behavior. She said: [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309465461' post='2261111'] I don't think so. I know so. Maybe you should read up on what is really gay bashing and what is not. [b]And no, no one has the right to judge anything. behavior or someone's heart.[/b] [/quote] So, if you cannot judge someone's behavior, you cannot judge that when a person murders another person that it is wrong. That in no way says that being homosexual = murder, merely that the behavior of a homosexual can be judged, just the same as the behavior of a murderer, an adulterer or any other person for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1309466296' post='2261132'] The only thing I am inferring is that the act of murdering someone is a behavior. She said: So, if you cannot judge someone's behavior, you cannot judge that when a person murders another person that it is wrong. That in no way says that being homosexual = murder, merely that the behavior of a homosexual can be judged, just the same as the behavior of a murderer, an adulterer or any other person for that matter. [/quote] I'm sure that's not what she meant anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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