Will Obama Destroy Franciscan University Of Steubenville?

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1317603847' post='2314227']
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cBYs12RNJtg/S0V4d0RAeqI/AAAAAAAAAC4/S1TPobRVGlQ/S1600-R/Jesus+Flagelado.jpg[/img]

more absurdity
[/quote]


It is impossible to progress in understanding without considerate dialogue. Do you want her to reach understanding? Or would you rather her simply feel guilty for her current convictions? Personally, I'd like her to understand my point and choose to follow it. I find that personal choice is far more motivating than coercion.

[i<3LSOP]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1317612381' post='2314369']

But the President can't unilaterally (sp?) overturn Roe vs Wade. It takes either:

1) A constitutional amendment, which requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress to pass and the approval of the state legislatures in 38 states (3/4 of 50); or
2) The Supreme Court must reverse Roe vs. Wade

Neither option will happen quickly, but where Bush 43 did act, he did appoint Roberst and Alitto, who most believe are pro-life.

Additionally, under Bush, federal employees had a wide variety of health insurance options, including one that did not cover contraception. Obama has erased this gain.

Now, the first amendment right to freedom of religion is under attack by a government redefinition of what religion is.

Other groups take to the streets in protest (think of the march to Selma). Maybe it's time for us Catholics to stop playing the "sheep" and start becoming more vocal in demanding our constitutional rights. After all, we're Americans, too.
[/quote]


My older brother says he wants to be a lawyer and get rid of abortion... he fights so well people might listen...

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1317625511' post='2314448']


It is impossible to progress in understanding without considerate dialogue. Do you want her to reach understanding? Or would you rather her simply feel guilty for her current convictions? Personally, I'd like her to understand my point and choose to follow it. I find that personal choice is far more motivating than coercion.
[/quote]


i think she's speaking of the way you judged her posts as "absurd." I didn't find it absurd to be soo passionate about the murder of the unborn. And if posting pictures of aborted babies is absurd, well then so is posting pictures of Christ scourged and crucified. Let's not make people feel guilty, so lets pull the Corpus off crosses now!!!

you can preach to people one way, its not the only way... I know of some people who totally changed after seeing pictures like that...

and if being passionate about the unborn makes me absurd, then absurd I will be...

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1317647596' post='2314536']


i think she's speaking of the way you judged her posts as "absurd." I didn't find it absurd to be soo passionate about the murder of the unborn. And if posting pictures of aborted babies is absurd, well then so is posting pictures of Christ scourged and crucified. Let's not make people feel guilty, so lets pull the Corpus off crosses now!!!

you can preach to people one way, its not the only way... I know of some people who totally changed after seeing pictures like that...

and if being passionate about the unborn makes me absurd, then absurd I will be...
[/quote]


content vs delivery

you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1317648874' post='2314544']


content vs delivery

you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar
[/quote]


yes, i agree, but after battling with pro-aborts and rabid feminists over abortion for more than 30 years, sometimes the truth helps, especially when showing what abortion really is... for decades they fought us with the "they are only blobs of tissues" argument. Those pictures clearly show that they are not blobs of tissue but human beings... also, with the high tech of today, you can actually see the baby in the womb more than in the decades passed...

like i said, there are more ways to preach to peeps, not just one way...

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1317649275' post='2314550']


yes, i agree, but after battling with pro-aborts and rabid feminists over abortion for more than 30 years, sometimes the truth helps, especially when showing what abortion really is... for decades they fought us with the "they are only blobs of tissues" argument. Those pictures clearly show that they are not blobs of tissue but human beings... also, with the high tech of today, you can actually see the baby in the womb more than in the decades passed...

like i said, there are more ways to preach to peeps, not just one way...
[/quote]


there are many ways - some of them more effective than others.

[vee]

I said what I said, people may reply as they want but I take none of it back nor apologize. I get passionate when talking about abortion because that could have been a family member I love very much in those pics. I will defend that family member and those with no families. Those who sit in public office had ought to do the same or they arent fit for office.

[vee]

why sugar coat the truth? I like my whiskey straight and my truth straighter.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1317649493' post='2314556']
I said what I said, people may reply as they want but I take none of it back nor apologize. I get passionate when talking about abortion because that could have been a family member I love very much in those pics. I will defend that family member and those with no families. Those who sit in public office had ought to do the same or they arent fit for office.
[/quote]


As I said before - there is content and then there is delivery. Sometimes a person who is passionate about something is not able to convey the truth without alienating others because of their attitude. I am not saying anyone should spologise for their beliefs or their feelings - not at all. I just think that there are ways to say things, and then there are ways... and some are more effective at converting than others are. I am also entitled to my opinion.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' timestamp='1317623921' post='2314442']

*coughcoughJIMMYCARTERcoughcough*




Absolutely right. And last time I checked, life extended beyond the nine months that a human spends in utero. That's the whole "to natural death" part. It is our duty as Catholics to defend and protect life. That's life, full stop. To excoriate a fellow poster for having the audacity to state that there were pertinent concerns to Catholics regarding life issues that were not directly related to abortion is not only myopic, it's ridiculous. And then to add this post


was just tasteless. This debate was in regard to the provision of contraception and abortion in terms of health insurance. NO ONE on this thread was arguing in favour of abortion. No one. To shamelessly drag out photographs of some poor innocents in order to reinforce the importance of pro-life issues was pointless and and the worst sort of emotional manipulation and grandstanding. Those dead babies didn't make your point. They only reinforced a point no one was arguing.



Kind of missing the point here. The fact that a liberal president wants to include contraception and abortions (all of which are still legal in this country, btw) as part of health care coverage to every insurance provider is not in any way shocking. The bigger issue here is the fact that religious exemptions seem to have little weight in the debate. The conversation here needs to be about how to argue that conscientious objection to such things should be legally protected, and that those who chose to elect coverage which did not include those things should be able to do so under law.

No one has argued that abortion isn't a big deal, or that it's inconsequential, or that Obama is Jesus Christ. The only posts I read pretty simply stated some objective facts: 1) no president has acted in a manner that is all good or all bad; 2) pro-life issues involve more than just abortion issues; and 3) neglecting any life in favour of any other is not an acceptable choice. The "starving children and all the born people" are just as important as the unborn, believe it or not. All deserve your love, compassion, protection, charity, prayers, and the same tireless energy should go to feeding the starving as it does to ending abortion. For all the arguing over cafeteria Catholics, some people seem to have no problem picking from the buffet of social issues and deciding which they like better. It's much easier to make an emotional argument about a baby than about a homeless person.



This. A million times this.
[/quote]


i think you've misunderstood. vee was showing that abortion is the end all be all issue, because of its hideousness and savagery, so it was an appropriate post. i don't understand how catholics can say, "i'm not a one-issue person.." well guess what??? for rabid feminists and pro-aborts, [b]abortion is their only issue[/b], and they vote only for the person who protects their "right" to choose what they want to do with their unborn babies... also, no one said we don't care for people after their born, this is a liberal tactic, and a very false one... priorities, my peeps, priorities... lets save the babies, because without ending abortion, there will never be peace or blessings for those of us who have survived.... i could care less about administrations paying for my health services or my college tuition, they have no business paying off anything, we aren't living in a socialist state. I would rather be pennyless and poor than to have a prez who doesn't respect life and pays for all my debts...

and again, obama is.the.worst.prez.ever especially when it comes to issues regarding the dignity and sanctity of human beings... jimmy carter was just a nut


and no one is claiming that republicans are not guilty of murder... you ask me, all politicians will have a lot to answer for their lack of protection of all human life from the womb to the tomb...

[Nunsense]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1317649672' post='2314557']
why sugar coat the truth? I like my whiskey straight and my truth straighter.
[/quote]


I don't drink whiskey and I do like sugar....

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1317649383' post='2314553']


there are many ways - some of them more effective than others.
[/quote]

yes, and i've seen women turn away from abortion clinics after seeing pictures of what abortion really is... no one ever told them...

[vee]

My sister got pregnant just out of high school. Thank God she was against abortion otherwise my niece would be dead right now. Instead she is an amazing talented young woman so I have zero tolerance for whishy washy nicey ness. When I talk about abortion I talk about my niece. When I see politicians who dont care, then they dont care about my niece. When it comes to defending my family yes I am very passionate.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1317649998' post='2314563']

yes, and i've seen women turn away from abortion clinics after seeing pictures of what abortion really is... no one ever told them...
[/quote]


I have no opposition to the truth - you keep missing what I am saying - the content is correct - abortion is an evil and photos show this. All I am saying is that an aggressive self-righteous attitude can actually cause a person to be put on the defensive and to shut down any openness to the truth. The truth can be stated in a dispassionate and objective way that will be more effective in the long run. But of course this is a very emotional issue for all sides. On one side we have the evil of killing babies and on the other side we have feelings of guilt and/or self-interest, both of which are very strong. All I'm saying, as an ex horse trainer, is that there are ways to get a horse to drink - but not always shoving their whole head into the trough!

[dominicansoul]

to attack catholic hospitals and attack catholic universities isn't the last straw...


administrations like this will even attack the way we speak of issues... just wait and see, it will be a crime just to protest abortion... in austin, they make our pro-life rally more and more difficult every year... we also get harrassed by a larger group of pro-aborts who show up with condoms in hand and loud noise makers like drums and electric guitars to drown out the Rosaries... funny how the Catholic church is always the object of these attacks... especially when there are other denominations in attendance...

Edited October 3, 2011 by dominicansoul

[Maggyie]

I think the issue with the picture of Jesus Christ is that one could easily post that while arguing in the opposite direction. After all we find Christ crucified in the poor, the immigrant, sick people living without health insurance and so on. The health insurance is a very real pro-life issue because there are a certain number of people who die on a weekly basis because they put off going to the doctor for a lump or some bleeding because they couldn't afford the copay. Our current system is just very unjust from many points of view including the Church's. The private charity sector has failed miserably in this regard. One of the few organizations stepping into the vacuum to help for women's cancers specifically is ironically Planned Parenthood with their free mammograms and pap smears. Which is not a good thing because it helps them "sugar up" their other "women's health services." Barf.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1317650255' post='2314565']
My sister got pregnant just out of high school. Thank God she was against abortion otherwise my niece would be dead right now. Instead she is an amazing talented young woman so I have zero tolerance for whishy washy nicey ness. When I talk about abortion I talk about my niece. When I see politicians who dont care, then they dont care about my niece. When it comes to defending my family yes I am very passionate.
[/quote]

So perhaps you are too close to this emotionally to see that you might actually do more harm than good in some situations. Sorry, but that's my opinion. People who have 'zero tolerance' can sometimes be labelled fanatics... right now this is for a good cause, but fanaticism also creates terrorists - people who bomb and kill abortionists in the name of good.... I am just wary of fanaticism that is basically emotionalism out of control.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1317650296' post='2314566']


I have no opposition to the truth - you keep missing what I am saying - the content is correct - abortion is an evil and photos show this. All I am saying is that an aggressive self-righteous attitude can actually cause a person to be put on the defensive and to shut down any openness to the truth. The truth can be stated in a dispassionate and objective way that will be more effective in the long run. But of course this is a very emotional issue for all sides. On one side we have the evil of killing babies and on the other side we have feelings of guilt and/or self-interest, both of which are very strong. All I'm saying, as an ex horse trainer, is that there are ways to get a horse to drink - but not always shoving their whole head into the trough!
[/quote]


i don't find it self-righteous or forceful... in fact, pro-aborts are very successful at that, shoving abortion into the political system, forcing it into law, forcing us to pay for abortions with our tax monies, forcing catholic universities to offer these services... they are very successful in shoving our faces into their bloody trough...

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1317650647' post='2314571']


i don't find it self-righteous or forceful... in fact, pro-aborts are very successful at that, shoving abortion into the political system, forcing it into law, forcing us to pay for abortions with our tax monies, forcing catholic universities to offer these services... they are very successful in shoving our faces into their bloody trough...
[/quote]

Of course you don't - you are the one doing it - but I am saying that others might find it so. We don't always see how others perceive us.

and yes, pro-abortionists are very aggressive and obnoxious - does that mean we should be like them? You probably think so, I don't. I think we should be wise as serpents, gentle as doves.

[vee]

you have a daughter nunsense, if defending her made you a fanatic would you care?

Im fine with being a fanatic for my niece. Should we only speak of issues we have no real interest or involvement in? A remote detachment? This is how I preach on this. If people dont like it then put me on ignore.