Ice_nine Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322608031' post='2342282'] Oh the horror! While it's unfortunate, Schaefer's spiel is nothing new or surprising. Statist socialism has always been the bitter foe of orthodox Christian faith. [/quote] always? Isn't statist socialism relatively new? I get the aversion to such systems, but is that really public enemy number 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1322616033' post='2342340'] always? Isn't statist socialism relatively new? I get the aversion to such systems, but is that really public enemy number 1? [/quote] Since its inception, it has been the bitter foe of Catholicism. Socrates didn't say is was public enemy number 1--he said it was a bitter enemy. There was never a time that it was friendly. So 'always'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1322616033' post='2342340'] always? Isn't statist socialism relatively new?[/quote] Relatively, in terms of human history (at least in its modern incarnations), though one could argue that statist elements of the pagan Roman empire put it into bloody conflict with the Faith. But I meant (as Winchester explained) that it was always opposed to orthodox Christian faith for as long as it (socialist statism) has existed. [quote]I get the aversion to such systems, but is that really public enemy number 1?[/quote] Well, Satan would be Public Enemy Number 1. However, the Church and the Popes have certainly spent a lot of ink denouncing this evil over the past century, so I don't think we should regard it as a small fry among modern evils. "Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist." ~ Pope Pius XI, [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19310515_quadragesimo-anno_en.html"][i]Quadragesimo Anno[/i][/url] Do you have a problem with me writing against socialism on here? I don't get what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 1) No one in America is being held down because of people who are rich. 2) People who are not succeeding in America have only themselves to blame, except in rare and extreme circumstances. Most unsuccessful people are unsuccessful through bad decisions that they have a the freedom to make. [b]Occupy is a lie.[/b] They've fooled gullible uninformed people into focusing on envy. [b]Occupy is criminal & communist. [/b] This video is just mind blowing, and speaks volumes for how bad these protests are when the organizers tell people not to contact police if they see a rape. They should be arrested for minimum of obstruction of justice. This also goes to show that something is seriously wrong with mainstream media to ignore stories like this and paint these occupy scum in a positive light. Over 200 assaults & vandalism at Occupy protests... how many at Tea Party Rally's? Answer: 0. Mainstream media is a complete failure of journalism. [url="http://www.breitbart.tv/occupyportland-if-you-witness-a-sexual-assault-nobody-should-contact-the-police-without-victims/"]http://www.breitbart.tv/occupyportland-if-you-witness-a-sexual-assault-nobody-should-contact-the-police-without-victims/[/url] [size=4][b]Most of the poor are poor because of the choices that they made, their own doing, & their choosing not to do the things they should. This is not the fault of those who have money & these occupy people have no right to other people's money. It's call freedom. Freedom to build yourself up or to slack off. We all have the freedom to improve ourselves, occupy people choose not to.[/b][/size] How many weeks did they spend camping and trashing where they protested? Maybe they should have been looking for a job or reading how to improve themselves in a library. Oh, yeah, forgot to add that Soros has a group that was hiring people on Craigslist to 'protest'. Yes... occupy hits a nerve. [size=4]God Bless & Pax Christi![/size] [size=4]ironmonk[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Well, if we are all ok with labeling all the OWS protestors and issues based on the actions of a few, then I am left with no other option than to assume that everyone supporting the Tea Party is a racist hillbilly. I can cite sources, and by this metric, this makes you all card carrying members of the KKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322762627' post='2343221'] Do you have a problem with me writing against socialism on here? I don't get what the issue is. [/quote] No. It's just like you talk about it a whole hell of a lot, more than I think is really warranted. And I had trouble with the semantically ambiguous "always" been the bitter foe . . . It's nbd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 It's not labeling OWS based on a few individuals... it's labeling their attack, anyone protesting with them either has no clue, is getting paid to do so, or is what is going wrong with America. The red herring will not work, there hasn't been anything racist with the tea party. The tea party rallies cleaned up their own trash, didn't leave 30 tons of it on the ground... proof how lazy the OWS is. Of course they're not going to get a job if they're too lazy to pick up their own trash. People being rich have NOTHING to do with people not getting a job. Wall Street banks and corporations have nothing to do with people not getting a job. America is still the land of opportunity... and guess what, it takes work. Maybe if these people opened their eyes and minds and learn from successful people, they'd get real jobs... but it's still a free country, they have a right to be lazy. People who do nothing have no right to demand that the government steal from those of us who work hard. I haven't worked 50-80 hours a week for the last 12 years of my life for some slacker who refuses to work because they can't get the job they want. A common reply to that statement is people are angry for businesses taking their plants overseas... don't be mad at corporations, be mad at yourselves for not buying stuff made in America. Businesses don't survive without making a profit, and no one but the business and it's customers (by purchasing from the business) decide how much profit is justified... the government does not have the right to do so in a free country. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 To be fair, the unemployment rate would be far, far lower if it weren't for the corporatist system that's in place right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' timestamp='1322886611' post='2343944'] It's not labeling OWS based on a few individuals... it's labeling their attack, anyone protesting with them either has no clue, is getting paid to do so, or is what is going wrong with America. The red herring will not work, there hasn't been anything racist with the tea party. The tea party rallies cleaned up their own trash, didn't leave 30 tons of it on the ground... proof how lazy the OWS is. Of course they're not going to get a job if they're too lazy to pick up their own trash. [/quote] Of course they won't pick up their own trash when they're being maced, zip tied, and hauled away in trucks, and when the authorities told them No, they could not bring in their own porta potties and dumpsters to take care of their own mess. [quote name='ironmonk' timestamp='1322886611' post='2343944'] People being rich have NOTHING to do with people not getting a job. Wall Street banks and corporations have nothing to do with people not getting a job. America is still the land of opportunity... and guess what, it takes work. Maybe if these people opened their eyes and minds and learn from successful people, they'd get real jobs... but it's still a free country, they have a right to be lazy. People who do nothing have no right to demand that the government steal from those of us who work hard. I haven't worked 50-80 hours a week for the last 12 years of my life for some slacker who refuses to work because they can't get the job they want. A common reply to that statement is people are angry for businesses taking their plants overseas... don't be mad at corporations, be mad at yourselves for not buying stuff made in America. Businesses don't survive without making a profit, and no one but the business and it's customers (by purchasing from the business) decide how much profit is justified... the government does not have the right to do so in a free country. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat. [/quote] We've been over this by now. You say that anyone can become as rich as the 1% through hard work, and I disagree. The 1% get rich by the following means: -inheriting money: (they didn't earn it, it was given to them) -investing money they already had: (they didn't earn the returns, someone else did all the work and had to pay them back) -investing money they don't actually have: (still getting a fat return, but don't have to put forward your own money) -printing money -usery -taxation -giving themselves raises while all the other people who work for them get nothing, not even enough to cover inflation As for consumers controlling this kind of injustice by their spending: BULL. When you're poor you buy from the corporations you can afford, not the ones you can actually justify supporting. When you sell the goods you can control who can and cannot buy them by setting your prices. Supply and demand doesn't matter when you're the only one with a supply, or when you and every other person with a supply conducts themselves in the same fashion. Government never was in control to begin with. Consumers aren't in control anymore either. The corporations are in control. Also, most every person I have seen who does not live in poverty does so not because he has earned every cent of his existence, but by pure gift and grace. My dad got through college partly by working delivering newspapers, but also because his dad gave him a large wad of dough. He got his job at Honeywell because he knew the man who was going to hire him, and they were friends. My grandfather inherited large sums of stock from my great-grandfather, and thus could afford his large family and schooling for himself and his children. I went to the seminary on the generosity of the Church and saintly old ladies who loved priests so much they gave their life savings to let us go to school. Conversely, I know people who will never succeed financially. This is because, unlike other people, they could not afford to go to school after the state stopped paying for it. Not simply choosing not to go, but literally unable to do so. People who started life with a burden of debt from a previous generation, or simply starting with nothing at all. People who made stupid juvenile mistakes, but because they couldn't afford a lawyer have felonies. Felonies which follow them for life and make it impossible to work a job that pays more than minimum wage. Felonies which rich people can effectively buy their way out of in court by having a real lawyer. I have acquaintances, relative, and friends, who have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time, consistently and through no fault of their own. They simply fail to succeed in life by dumb luck. I know still others who have had their hard work and planning in life come to nothing, not because of needless interference from government, but because they were actually stopped by someone else who had more money than them. Examples include: wealthy landowners "convincing" building inspectors to cause inspections to fail, wealthy "victims" suing people who can't afford to go to court simply to intimidate them, and business owners extracting compliance from workers (including one friend who wound up in jail over something the company owner did, but was blamed on him) who depend upon them for a wage. Sure, everyone has to work. But nobody does it all on their own. Nobody. People I have met who assert such things are liars. And there are too many people who are super rich who did so by refusing to help those in need. People who hurt others by choosing to pay lower and lower wages by not keeping pace with inflation or cost of living, despite year after year of profits. People who control market pricing not simply to benefit themselves, but *exclusively* for their own benefit. People who's businesses exist solely to convince less wealthy people to go into debt for every dollar of their personal wealth. This is injustice, and no matter how capitalist you want to be, these are crimes. I am not saying every wealthy person commits them. But it happens with alarming regularity, and has been spotted in nearly every segment of every industry. Whether the OWS understands and articulates this doesn't matter to me. This is not about socialism. It's not about class warfare. It's about people who are criminals, who also happen to be rich. Edited December 3, 2011 by arfink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 [quote name='ironmonk' timestamp='1322886611' post='2343944'] People who do nothing have no right to demand that the government steal from those of us who work hard. I haven't worked 50-80 hours a week for the last 12 years of my life for some slacker who refuses to work because they can't get the job they want. [/quote] Oh yeah, and that's not a "real job." That's wage slavery. FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Investing money is a perfectly legitimate way to make money, and is in fact crucial in order to arrive at and maintain the standard of living and quality of life we currently enjoy. There are a lot of things to criticize under the American corporatist system, but investing of capital is not one of them. C[color=#000000]r[/color]ap, this isn't Reddit. I can't downvote fools. Edited December 3, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1322889822' post='2343975'] Oh yeah, and that's not a "real job." That's wage slavery. FYI. [/quote] I'm a wageslave *woot* What a meaningless phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 [quote name='ironmonk' timestamp='1322886611' post='2343944'] It's not labeling OWS based on a few individuals... it's labeling their ]attack, anyone protesting with them either has no clue, is getting paid to do so, or is what is going wrong with America. The red herring will not work, [b]there hasn't been anything racist with the tea party..[/b] [/quote] Hold on hold on, im gonna stop you right there. [spoiler] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR6Rj6P_WPY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR6Rj6P_WPY[/url] [url="http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/25/are-tea-partiers-racist.html"]http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/25/are-tea-partiers-racist.html[/url] [img]http://brotherpeacemaker.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/teaparty_robertson_spelling_racist_problem.jpg[/img] [img]http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/20100912_zaf_mv2_008.jpg[/img] [img]http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/deportobama.jpg[/img] [img]http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/arrogantkenyan.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/T71Cv.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/BNtHV.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/rOY25.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ikK2l.jpg[/img] not to mention the current phase of the Tea Party (not Ron Paul's original, which i like) arose in direct opposition to Obama, who aside from being black was nothing new in terms of the economic issues the Tea Party was all about. And the whole thing with the "Birthers", "obama is a dirty muslim kenyan" and especially how long that lasted despite lack of evidence for it, and despite plenty of evidence against it just stinks of racism. and like in the video above, generally racism amongst tea party supporters was far more blatant towards muslims rather than the somewhat rarer anti black racism [/spoiler] Many of the supporters of the Tea Party, and leaders in certain areas have been blatantly racist. there is no real way around that. What we should be focusing on, is the fact that you should not be divining the nature of a movement and the issues it represents solely by the members that it attracts. No reason that those outspoken people shouldnt be considered relevant and worth looking into. but a lot of racists do not inherently make the Tea Party racist and by the same token, OWS shouldnt be judged so completely by the televised antics of a small portion of the people at the protests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Trolling win. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrHkxqNT7s[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 lol that reminds me of Rick Mercer's old segment "Talking to Americans" pretty hilarious, that lady is fairly ignorant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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