Occupy Wall Street Baloney

[4588686]

Unfettered Capitalism is still part of the problem. Had the government not bailed out Wall Street we would have had an even more traumatic collapse. Some variant of Corporatism buffered us from the full ravages of a financial system that had assumed too much risk without really understanding what it was doing. Barney Frank did not force Banks to re-bundle subprime mortgages into securities with fraudulent AAA ratings. At most the financial sector attempted to take advantage of the existence of subprime mortgages and make money by re-branding poo as gold. That's not Barney Frank's fault. Barney Frank wanting the increase the number of poor people who could get loans did not in any way force the financial sectors hand to attempt to take those loans and transform them into a new financial commodity which risk they did not really understand.

Labor precedes Capital. We need to stop pretending that those who manipulate capital for the production of greater capital are innovative entrepreneurs. They are not bad people but they are intelligent people attempting to make money by manipulating a complex system that they don't really understand and whose complexities cannot be fully accounted for in a the available mathematical models. This is inherently a part of the economy that needs to be regulated. It does not really produce anything. It plays with the fruit of actual production in an attempt to leach off the achievements of tangible sectors of the economy. It needs to be regulated. Not destroyed. But regulated.

[add]

[b][color=#ff0000][size=5]pigpen! [/size][/color][/b] neighbors repeatedly complain about protesters defecating in the area and the stench of urine.

Filth-ridden Zuccotti Park is a breeding ground for bacterial infection loaded with potential health-code violations that pose a major risk to the public, an expert who inspected the area warned.
“It’s like Walmart for rats,’’ Wayne Yon, an expert on city health regulations, said yesterday.
“There’s a lack of sanitation, a lack of controls for hot and cold water,” Yon said. He saw at least 15 violations of the city’s health code -- the type that would easily shut down a food establishment.
He noted the lack of lavatory facilities, as neighbors repeatedly complain about protesters defecating in the area and the stench of urine.
reported by the "NY Post"


thank Goodness, winter is coming

Edited October 23, 2011 by add

[Jesus_lol]

"Tea Party Group says "small businesses should stop hiring new employees to hurt obama"
[url="http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/235049/20111020/tea-party-nation-small-businesses-should-stop-hiring-melissa-brookstone.htm"]http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/235049/20111020/tea-party-nation-small-businesses-should-stop-hiring-melissa-brookstone.htm[/url]

i would rather have an unfocused message than that one, that is just awful.

[4588686]

Rereading, my point was not to endorse corporatism, but that analytically the tea-party, while not wrong that corporatism should be beaten back, is historically wrong in asserting that corporatism was the primary causal force in the current economic downturn. While corporatism certainly existed prior to 2008 the inherent driving mechanism of the collapse was not the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in itself but the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in that this collusion precipitated the deregulation of the financial sector that led to the collapse.

Corporatism opened the door for unfettered, reckless capitalism in the financial sector to take the economy to the brink.

[add]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1319395287' post='2325750']Rereading, my point was not to endorse corporatism, but that analytically the tea-party, while not wrong that corporatism should be beaten back, is historically wrong in asserting that corporatism was the primary causal force in the current economic downturn. While corporatism certainly existed prior to 2008 the inherent driving mechanism of the collapse was not the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in itself but the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in that this collusion precipitated the deregulation of the financial sector that led to the collapse.

Corporatism opened the door for unfettered, reckless capitalism in the financial sector to take the economy to the brink.[/quote]

It's called free enterprise ----- it works
The status of living is really good here in the US, I don't see a problem ?
All them people living in the park, complaining are lazy bums

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1319414504' post='2325901']
It's called free enterprise ----- it works
The status of living is really good here in the US, I don't see a problem ?
All them people living in the park, complaining are lazy bums
[/quote]


i really hope this is a joke.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1319332552' post='2325386']
"[i]Fascism[/i] should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and [i]corporate[/i] power." - Benito [i]Mussolini[/i]




[img]http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315806_2549725143408_1262229679_33018164_523586113_n.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I got tired of using that word.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1319395287' post='2325750']
Rereading, my point was not to endorse corporatism, but that analytically the tea-party, while not wrong that corporatism should be beaten back, is historically wrong in asserting that corporatism was the primary causal force in the current economic downturn. While corporatism certainly existed prior to 2008 the inherent driving mechanism of the collapse was not the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in itself but the collusion of the financial sector and Washington in that this collusion precipitated the deregulation of the financial sector that led to the collapse.

Corporatism opened the door for unfettered, reckless capitalism in the financial sector to take the economy to the brink.
[/quote]
Unfettered capitalism wouldn't have the ability to cause this. I agree that central planning in its various forms caused this problem.

Reckless investment is possible when the government will bail you out.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Winchester

[Socrates]

Government involvement in banks and financial institutions was very much at the root of our financial/economic crisis. The government-backed Federal Reserve was given the power of issuing fiat money - essentially creating money out of thin air to be "loaned" to the various major banks, as well as to dictate an artificially-low national interest rate, which encouraged the loaning and borrowing of money which was not backed up by actual wealth, creating a huge bubble doomed to burst. It's essentially government price-setting on money (interest rates are the "price of money"), and government price-setting always proves economically disastrous in the real world, whether its applied to goods or money itself. Government-backed Fannie and Freddy pushed banks to lend mortgages to people who could not afford to pay them back, spurring the housing collapse.

Far from "unfettered capitalism," the problem was a system with government deeply involved in manipulated the country's money supply and finances - with disastrous results. More government meddling in the market will only perpetuate and deepen the problem.

Most of the problems causing our economic crisis would not have occurred, or would have fairly rapidly corrected themselves, in a true free market. In a true free market, banks that engage in unsound lending practices would fail, without hope of a government bailout. Financial institutions would tend to be more wise in their practices in order to avoid failure. Unsound banks would be out of business, and those that engage in sound and honest practices would thrive.

Our current system of government meddling in the market only helps perpetuate unsound business and financial practices that would never get far an actual free market. Government is the problem, not the solution.

[Winchester]

But Socrates, because rich people are selfish and unreliable, we need rich people with a monopoly on violence to regulate them, because government power gets rid of bad human traits! Government has been telling us this for years! When will we listen?

[dominicansoul]

did i hear right today? someone gave a donation to the Occupy Wall Street people and they put the money in a bank??? the irony.....

[Jesus_lol]

I would be more ok with current rates of taxation on the ultra wealthy, if they closed all the loopholes. anyone with real money in the states basically pays no txes thanks to offshore business accounts, tax evasion, etc.

it seems the swiss banks are considering handing info over on thousands of american tax evaders, i am razzle dazzle with that.

[Jesus_lol]

Wow, it appears that the Pope himself supports many of the ideas behind the Occupy Wallstreet Protests...
[url="http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141659992/occupy-wall-streets-most-unlikely-ally-the-pope"]http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141659992/occupy-wall-streets-most-unlikely-ally-the-pope[/url]

[MIKolbe]

Thanks for the link. razzle dazzle article...

If you look on that page, there is a link saying [url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141661518&live=1"][color="#3366cc"]Read A Different Opinion On The Vatican's Appeal For Economic Reform[/color][/url] and it is by some guy from the von Mises institute.

And while I found the second article more coherent and more in line with my thinking... he wrote this:

[i]Our problem isn't greedy people or bad personnel; every society and every period of world history have had those. The problem is the system itself.[/i]

And I was all like "yeah, man!!! change the system!!! revolution, brother!!" I stopped my conservative/hippie swag, and began to think maybe the Pope was right/had a point.

Perhaps the problem (part or all) IS greedy people and bad personnel? Is a new system going to cure greed? Is a new system going to fix stupid? All we need is another system and one more chance; we'd make it work!!?!?!?!? THIS TIME!!

Needless to say, both articles where a cause for pause... thanks J_LOL

[dominicansoul]

like lust, hatred, gluttony, sloth, and the other vices, greed will be with us until the end of time...


Occupy Wall Street isn't organized enough to do anything to change the system. And I'm afraid when we have two political parties that depend on the deep pockets of corporations, we will never see any reform.

Americans need to stop putting into power unqualified men/women who "payback" corporations for their support and force us poor taxpayers to bail them out when they hit bankruptcy. All the while, the CEO's are racking up billions in salary...

I highly doubt any politician wants to see the reform of Wall Street, because most politicians are in it for themselves, and definitely not for the protesters. I say, protest at the polls!!! That'll make them pay attention...