AccountDeleted Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Here are some previous threads on yoga from Debate Table doing a search. One of them is locked. I didn't read them again but perhaps it got too hot? So everyone be charitable if you debate. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/117510-harry-potter-and-yoga-are-evil-says-catholic-church-exorcist/page__hl__%2Bexorcist+%2Byoga__fromsearch__1"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/117510-harry-potter-and-yoga-are-evil-says-catholic-church-exorcist/page__hl__%2Bexorcist+%2Byoga__fromsearch__1[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/66377-the-problem-with-yoga/page__st__260__p__1521738__hl__+exorcist%20+yoga__fromsearch__1"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/66377-the-problem-with-yoga/page__st__260__p__1521738__hl__+exorcist%20+yoga__fromsearch__1[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/4272-new-agemodernism-infilltration-of-our-church/page__p__68323__hl__+exorcist%20+yoga__fromsearch__1"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/4272-new-agemodernism-infilltration-of-our-church/page__p__68323__hl__+exorcist%20+yoga__fromsearch__1[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Carmelites need a log, or cross, and a sand pit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W5F6rZIlqU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 They need to carry stones to one side of the monastery and then bring them all back again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 we did this same exercise in the dominican convent, except we used a Sister instead of a log... ...but hey, I lost like, 40 lbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
she_who_is_not Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1325905562' post='2364273'] we did this same exercise in the dominican convent, except we used a Sister instead of a log... ...but hey, I lost like, 40 lbs... [/quote] Is that the 10th way of prayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 [quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1325906099' post='2364276'] Is that the 10th way of prayer? [/quote] No, it's called the Punitive Way, it's a cross between purgative and unitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 the OP is on the left [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AYcH1Rb1gBw/Ttghv4p1GyI/AAAAAAAAAPI/TfDwWG20Nfg/s1600/U.S.+Army+Combatives.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Franciscan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Indwelling Trinity, how lovely to read your posts again. They always give me food for thought and warm my heart. Since this is a religious life discernment forum, I think it imperative that those who know of the irregularities of some communities share that - without judgment - but share it nonetheless. I would never have known these nuns in Colorado were not regular, and I take offense at communities that try to hide that fact about themselves. With that said, I would like to add that I was in a Carmel that had some irregularities, which I did not know until I entered. It was only apparent in living there for one week, and then I was told. I spent the next year and a half trying to come to terms with it, but in the end could not. The bishop disbanded the community (I can't think of the legal term for disbanded, but you get the idea). Since I was young at the time and did not have a spiritual director, I was at a loss as to what to do vocation wise. I was very much lost. I had planned to spend the rest of my life there, and then it was pulled out from beneath me. Since you brought up obedience, I would like to add something that I have struggled with these many years. I saw my sisters struggling in obedience when they knew things were not correct. They were always obedient, but they were obedient in doing the wrong - at least going along with it. I just wonder when being obedient is not the best thing for one's soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I will second prayerful discernment! There is seldom a reason to rush a decision to enter. Also, when visiting, certain things about a community are likely to 'come out.' Depending upon how things are handled...the sisters may be quite proud of the ways they deviate from, erm, 'normal' communities and will tell you all about it. A 'oh, we don't do that here....' attitude. If they've changed the language of the liturgy (or the hours) you will know this right away when you pray with them. I'm not saying that a group that is moving away from the Church will be obvious, but if you encounter some red flags in your conversations with them or observations during your visit....do not dismiss these things as just an anomaly. Do not assume that all is well and you must have been mistaken. Share your concerns with your spiritual director, certainly...and, if appropriate, ask the vocation director directly for an explanation. It is possible you are concerned about an innocent misunderstanding...but this might not be a time to give someone the benefit of the doubt. That being said, I do know a religious community that is full of all sorts of red flags (of the more liberal bent, not the traditionalist bent). They are in communion with the Church, but I would have difficulty recommending that anyone discern there because of what I have observed. And yet...and yet. These women have devoted their lives to prayer. They were nothing if not thoughtful and solicitous towards me while I was in their company. They showed great insights in their conversations, and likely know a good deal more about love and hospitality than I do. I do not dislike them as people, and in fact learned some things from them. And so, I must second (third?) the call for charity towards all communities, maybe most especially those who seem to have lost their way. It is beyond me to judge the individual sisters who are members there, and prayers are always welcome and appreciated. Knowingly discerning with a group outside the Church that does not have the sacraments strikes me as particularly foolhardy, so the warning in this thread (to check with the diocese first before discerning with a group) seems like a sensible one. If one does encounter such a group during one's search for a community....keep them in your prayers. Maybe someday, they will return to full communion with the Church, and their past wounds will be healed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 [quote name='vee8' timestamp='1325903487' post='2364258'] I think the time would be better spent praying the Rosary. [/quote] Formal exercise is something that all cloistered nuns need to take for the sake of their health, especially if their primary work is sedentary (sewing, making crafts, etc.) Many monasteries set aside special time for it. Stretching exercises have an advantage in that they don't require extra facilities or much space, and Faith has explicitly said that hers aren't the same as yoga, so the debate that Nunsense mentions doesn't even apply. She was in Carmel for eighteen months so I think she understands what she needs in the way of exercise. I will also say that I have never known her to cut back on her prayer time for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1325915981' post='2364342'] Formal exercise is something that all cloistered nuns need to take for the sake of their health, especially if their primary work is sedentary (sewing, making crafts, etc.) Many monasteries set aside special time for it. Stretching exercises have an advantage in that they don't require extra facilities or much space, and Faith has explicitly said that hers aren't the same as yoga, so the debate that Nunsense mentions doesn't even apply. She was in Carmel for eighteen months so I think she understands what she needs in the way of exercise. I will also say that I have never known her to cut back on her prayer time for anything. [/quote] Beatitude - no one here is attacking faith at all, but perhaps re-reading this post of hers might explain my reaction... [quote]"Yoga ia actually, in many cases, really Supple Strength - an exercise that uses similar positions and techniques without any spirituality at all. I am qualified to teach it and will certainly be doing it myself when I can, a Sunday if not before!" [/quote] She does not use the words, 'stretching exercises', she uses the word "Yoga" and says she is qualified to teach it, which might mean it is not just generic stretching exercises, but actually Yoga. She does use caps for the words Supple Strength... but I don't know if that is a brand name or just a description. And Yoga is a controversial subject, with warnings about it from highly placed Vatican officials as well as support for it from many priests and religious. all I was saying is that one should avoid promoting actual 'Yoga' to others here when it is such a controversial topic. I provided links to the threads that already exist about it, and I suggested taking the debate to the Debate Table as well. I did not personally attack faith and would never do so as I admire her very much. If she had used the words, strectching exercises, I would never have commented, but we do have young girls on here who need to know that this is not a simple topic and that the Church has concerns with some things associated with this particular form of exercise. I have also lived in Carmel and know the need for physical exercise so I am certainly not objecting to this at all. But just as faith was warning us to be careful in discerning with communities that may not be in alignment with Rome, I am simply warning us to be careful when considering a form of exercise that does not have the full confidence and support of all within the Church. Our Holy Father has wonderful things to say about all religions... [quote] "The majority of the 'great religions' which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions, neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured. It is within the context of all of this that these bits and pieces should be taken up and expressed anew…" - Excerpt from "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some aspects of Christian Meditation" by Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) [/quote] ...but that does not mean that we are to take up all of the practices of these other faiths. The word yoga means union and was a way to achieve union with God through the body. I would just be very careful and perhaps learn a lot more about the topic before promoting it to others on a vocation forum. This is my opinion entirely but I am trying to err on the side of caution. I am not saying it is evil, just that it does have strong historical links to a non-Catholic religion. I mean no offence towards anyone. Edited January 7, 2012 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well here is a NY Times article about how yoga can cause harm to your body as well. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?_r=4"]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?_r=4[/url] I found out about the article from a yoga teacher (no -- I don't do yoga, but a previous spiritual director had suggested it and a coworker got me on a mailing list). And even if someone (like a spiritual director) recommends something of course discern it. I had gone back and forth about yoga as simple exercise but I kept getting this inner sense (Holy Spirit sense) to stay away. I am glad that I listened to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1325905562' post='2364273'] we did this same exercise in the dominican convent, except we used a Sister instead of a log... ...but hey, I lost like, 40 lbs... [/quote] [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325907020' post='2364284'] No, it's called the Punitive Way, it's a cross between purgative and unitive [/quote] Oh... Meee! I don't know which of you had me laughing harder! Kudos and TY to both of you! And Vee.. you are an upstart! for all three of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Also ... I did a quick search on Supple Strength, and it looks like it is a combination of yoga, pilates, body conditioning, and tai chi moves. I am still a bit leary ... but that's from my own reading and researching the topic. Each person really does need to make a consciencious decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 [quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1325918378' post='2364358'] Also ... I did a quick search on Supple Strength, and it looks like it is a combination of yoga, pilates, body conditioning, and tai chi moves. I am still a bit leary ... but that's from my own reading and researching the topic. Each person really does need to make a consciencious decision. [/quote] That's why I said to take it to the Debate Table because it is something that everything looks at differently... and since I was very involved with Eastern religions before I became a Catholic, I guess I have more concerns than most at the religious overtones to many exercises. BTW, even Tai chi has strong roots in various Eastern religions including Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism and has a concept of [i]t'ai chi[/i] or the [i]Supreme Ultimate[/i] is used in various Chinese philosophical schools, usually to represent the contrast in opposing categories, or the interplay of those categories usually termed yin and yang. I am not saying they are bad and I return to my main point of being careful not to seem to support them unconditionally and to discern carefully what to take from them and how to present them to others. None of us would be the first to slowly slip into things like meditation without Jesus etc. by investigating Eastern religions and philosophies. I start to worry when I see people embracing without question anything from Eastern religions. Vocation Station is not the place to debate this though.[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' timestamp='1325918242' post='2364357'] Oh... Meee! I don't know which of you had me laughing harder! Kudos and TY to both of you! And Vee.. you are an upstart! for all three of you! [/quote] Glad to give you a laugh. I am not usually quick with humour, but this one just leaped out at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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