Succession Of Lies

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335356384' post='2423122']
I did it in post #10.
[/quote]

"[color=#282828]I do not know what you are talking? Teach me. Okay" [/color][color=#282828]is not an answer. it is a duck and cover. pretending you do not know what I mean. [/color]

[color=#282828] it is very simple: tell me which Gospel account was the favorite of St. Paul?[/color]

Edited April 25, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[Basilisa Marie]

Yay! A response to my post.

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335345903' post='2423107']

I am not a member of any religious group because the entire humanity is just one body and even unbelievers are included in it.
[/quote]

On some level, yes, humanity is all one body. But this body has many parts, each with their own function.
[quote]
God thru Christ forgives us -all of us - even before we have our being nonetheless, many will never find rest because of their own doing. They craved for more although everything was already given. They cannot see although they are already in the light. [/quote]

Okay, this is where I have a problem. I think you're misinterpreting these ideas from scripture.

Salvation (and thus forgiveness of sin) comes through Christ (yes, I agree with you here). This transcends time and space, and one could even say that we're forgiven before the sin occurs (still agreeing). But the difference I draw here is that we must choose to accept this forgiveness. That act of choice is what changes (makes right) our relationship with God and what enables us to accept the grace that will help us grow to become better people. Do you see what I'm getting at here? You say that people are already in the light, but just don't know it. I say that people need to step into the light. But we're both saying the light is already there.

[quote]Each of them will judge himself by his own measurement and by the same measurement he cannot acquit himself. He is like a dog continually trying to bite his own tail. He is now a restless god on the same day God rested in all his doing. This thing is forever.
[/quote]

Again I think things are a bit garbled. To some degree, we are each judged by our own lives and circumstances. Doing the best we can with the lives given to us...at least to a degree, because there is still the objective law and we're all called to follow Christ, and that has certain rules. But we don't do the judging...God does. God isn't a restless God. I don't know what you mean there. Or when you say this thing is forever.

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1335360036' post='2423133']
"[color=#282828]I do not know what you are talking? Teach me. Okay" [/color][color=#282828]is not an answer. it is a duck and cover. pretending you do not know what I mean. [/color]

[color=#282828]it is very simple: tell me which Gospel account was the favorite of St. Paul?[/color]
[/quote]

I do not know what Paul favorite gospel account you are saying,

[Papist]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335357869' post='2423128']
With due respect to Papist, let me post some verses where Apostle Paul mentioned ‘other Jesus’ in his letter and let us discuss it first before we proceed to Papist’s concern.

It is written in 2 Cor 11:1-6


[indent=1]11:1 I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4[b] For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,[/b] or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5 But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6 I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way[/indent]

Again, he said ‘. [b]4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,[/b]…’
Therefore, there is ‘other’ Jesus different from their Jesus.
[/quote]
Yes. What you are doing here is what St. Paul is warning us about.

[CaliforniaCatholic]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335345903' post='2423107']
I am not a member of any religious group because the entire humanity is just one body and even unbelievers are included in it.....................[/quote]

What a load of road apples.

The Pope is not in the same group as Vladimar Putin, I can assure you.

[reyb]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335363236' post='2423143']
Yes. What you are doing here is what St. Paul is warning us about.
[/quote]

So you can see that there is another Jesus.

[Papist]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335365441' post='2423167']
So you can see that there is another Jesus.
[/quote]
No.

[reyb]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335360418' post='2423135']
Yay! A response to my post.



On some level, yes, humanity is all one body. But this body has many parts, each with their own function.


Okay, this is where I have a problem. I think you're misinterpreting these ideas from scripture.

Salvation (and thus forgiveness of sin) comes through Christ (yes, I agree with you here). This transcends time and space, and one could even say that we're forgiven before the sin occurs (still agreeing). But the difference I draw here is that we must choose to accept this forgiveness. That act of choice is what changes (makes right) our relationship with God and what enables us to accept the grace that will help us grow to become better people. Do you see what I'm getting at here? You say that people are already in the light, but just don't know it. I say that people need to step into the light. But we're both saying the light is already there.



Again I think things are a bit garbled. To some degree, we are each judged by our own lives and circumstances. Doing the best we can with the lives given to us...at least to a degree, because there is still the objective law and we're all called to follow Christ, and that has certain rules. But we don't do the judging...God does. God isn't a restless God. I don't know what you mean there. Or when you say this thing is forever.
[/quote]


Let discuss this later and on another topic.

[reyb]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335365526' post='2423168']
No.
[/quote]


I thought you are telling me I am introducing 'other' Jesus. Can you please explain to me that verse of Apostle Paul?

Edited April 25, 2012 by reyb

[Papist]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335365880' post='2423171']
I thought you are telling me I am introducing to you 'other' Jesus. Can you please explain to me that verse of Apostle Paul?
[/quote]
Incorrect. You told me/us that I/we are following a different Jesus than you. I/we are not accepting what you say. When St. Paul refers to Jesus, he is referring to the Son of God, the second Person of the Trinity. What St. Paul is talking about in that verse you posted is that beware of people who come preaching and claim what they are teaching is the Good News of Jesus Christ, but are actually not teaching the Good News of Jesus Christ. Hence, this Jesus they are talking of does not exist. Therefore, only one true Jesus Christ exist. i.e. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

NOTE: My interpretation of scripture is not infallible

[reyb]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335366930' post='2423176']
Incorrect. You told me/us that I/we are following a different Jesus than you. I/we are not accepting what you say. When St. Paul refers to Jesus, he is referring to the Son of God, the second Person of the Trinity. What St. Paul is talking about in that verse you posted is that beware of people who come preaching and claim what they are teaching is the Good News of Jesus Christ, but are actually not teaching the Good News of Jesus Christ. Hence, this Jesus they are talking of does not exist. Therefore, only one true Jesus Christ exist. i.e. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

NOTE: My interpretation of scripture is not infallible
[/quote]

So, there are teacher who preached a 'non-existent' Jesus different from their Jesus. And these same teachers are preaching about a 'gospel of Christ' which is actually 'no gospel' at all. Do you see it now?

[Papist]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335367764' post='2423181']
So, there are teacher who preached a 'non-existent' Jesus different from their Jesus. And these same teachers are preaching about a 'gospel of Christ' which is actually 'no gospel' at all. Do you see it now?
[/quote]
Yes. I recognized it in your first post. I encourage you to stop preaching falsehood.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1335269344' post='2422583']
and your breaking my heart calling people pathetic man, even if the whole catholic answer diddy is 100% authentic straight and direct with full effect from the holy spirit to a presiding pope, if you knew church doctrine than you would also know that sin is not present without full knowledge that something is a sin,and would not be so quick to address anyone as pathetic,block head,idiot and such names. Jesus' states to not call anyone idiot or block head' i assume even if the person is and i'm not saying you are reyb.
[/quote]

Gotta call this one out - that's not correct. Sin exists whether we know it's a sin or not. A [i]mortal[/i] sin is not mortal if the sinner doesn't know it's a mortal sin, but it's still a sin.

[mortify]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335365441' post='2423167']
So you can see that there is another Jesus.
[/quote]

Which "Jesus" do you believe, we believe in?

Which "Jesus" do you believe in?

[Jesus_lol]

well, it sure is interesting talking to people who have made up their own reality.

[reyb]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335369603' post='2423191']
Yes. I recognized it in your first post. I encourage you to stop preaching falsehood.
[/quote]

What falsehood? We just read Apostle Paul's letter about their Jesus and false teacher's Jesus. These two Jesuses is not one and the same Jesus. The other one is a lie - it does not exist. So, from who this 'non-existent Jesus' comes from?

Edited April 25, 2012 by reyb

[mortify]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335386024' post='2423324']
What falsehood? We just read Apostle Paul's letter about their Jesus and false teacher's Jesus. These two Jesuses is not one and the same Jesus. The other one is a lie - it does not exist. So, from who this 'non-existent Jesus' comes from?
[/quote]

Yes reyb, it's called heresy. Are you saying Catholics hold a heretical view of Christ?

Please, for the sake of dicussion, be as specific and detailed as possible.

[reyb]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1335387087' post='2423336']
Yes reyb, it's called heresy. Are you saying Catholics hold a heretical view of Christ?

Please, for the sake of dicussion, be as specific and detailed as possible.
[/quote]

Yes. Your early fathers are false teachers and they preached the historical realization of the coming of Christ, which is a lie and that is what they ‘handed on’ to you. Christ can be seen even up to now if only you will seek him.

[mortify]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335393163' post='2423374']
Yes. Your early fathers are false teachers and they preached the historical realization of the coming of Christ, which is a lie and that is what they ‘handed on’ to you. Christ can be seen even up to now if only you will seek him.
[/quote]

Ok, you now made several accusations against us. I ask that you give some clarification:

What is the "historical realization of the coming of Christ"? Do you disbelieve in the Second Coming of Christ?

I have several other questions, but lets start with the one above.

[reyb]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1335398523' post='2423417']
Ok, you now made several accusations against us. I ask that you give some clarification:

What is the "historical realization of the coming of Christ"? Do you disbelieve in the Second Coming of Christ?

I have several other questions, but lets start with the one above.
[/quote]


Historical realization of the coming of Christ is the fulfilment of the historical coming of the Messiah of the Jews named Jesus as foretold by the holy prophets. This belief or ‘orally transmitted tradition’ is according to your early fathers and even today --. you call it ‘salvation history’ which was truthfully accepted by all Christians of our times.

Now, regarding second coming:


It is written in Acts 1:10-11

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Therefore, if you believe in that historical event about the coming of the Jesus then you must also believe - in the same way he will come - and that is, he will come back again in our world of realities or physical realities. (I quoted the above verses because I know that is how you see these verses)

Both of these 'comings' are lies or I do not accept to be true. I am not saying that the message of acts is wrong. What I am saying is your interpretation to these verse is the one 'erroneous' and not the message of the letter itself.

Edited April 26, 2012 by reyb