Discalced Carmelite Nun Communities

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

God reward you Chiquitunga for the great movie review!

Now I would really like to see all of it (with English subtitles of course!) I've seen bits of the movie with the English, but from what I've seen it seems to be very realistic; especially the part of her in Carmel. It was almost like watching what actually took place and you were with her while she was in Carmel. It is really great. Though of course being a movie, there was a few things I picked out that were a bit different. For example, a lot of times there was a lack of recollection (in the refectory scenes the most when the Sisters were looking at eachother and around the room.) It also looks like the black veils are wearing black toca's! It seems though that in the movie, the way they wore the day veil (the veil sewed on to the toca) was worn so that it covered the toca part that would be shown on the shoulders. Even the white veils wore them like this, but because they had white veils it isn't so noticable. The postulants and novices were talking to eachother during recreations without talking to one another through the Superior with "benedicite" (benedicite to ask Sister, or benedicite to say ....) I know this is actually the case in some Carmels, but in others they are not able to speak directly to eachother. I wonder if this is the norm or is this more rare and with only a select few Carmels?

I really have to look into getting the movie! I have been reading "Letters of St. Teresa of the Andes" and this is just a wonderful book. It is so rich with Carmelite spirituality and the way she always talks about being a Carmelite is just so beautiful. She also gives great advise to those living in the world. I find its a really good read for those preparing to enter Carmel.

Edited November 4, 2012 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[Nunsense]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1351995603' post='2503673']
God reward you Chiquitunga for the great movie review!

Now I would really like to see all of it (with English subtitles of course!) I've seen bits of the movie with the English, but from what I've seen it seems to be very realistic; especially the part of her in Carmel. It was almost like watching what actually took place and you were with her while she was in Carmel. It is really great. Though of course being a movie, there was a few things I picked out that were a bit different. For example, a lot of times there was a lack of recollection (in the refectory scenes the most when the Sisters were looking at eachother and around the room.) It also looks like the black veils are wearing black toca's! It seems though that in the movie, the way they wore the day veil (the veil sewed on to the toca) was worn so that it covered the toca part that would be shown on the shoulders. Even the white veils wore them like this, but because they had white veils it isn't so noticable. The postulants and novices were talking to eachother during recreations without talking to one another through the Superior with "benedicite" (benedicite to ask Sister, or benedicite to say ....) I know this is actually the case in some Carmels, but in others they are not able to speak directly to eachother. I wonder if this is the norm or is this more rare and with only a select few Carmels?

I really have to look into getting the movie! I have been reading "Letters of St. Teresa of the Andes" and this is just a wonderful book. It is so rich with Carmelite spirituality and the way she always talks about being a Carmelite is just so beautiful. She also gives great advise to those living in the world. I find its a really good read for those preparing to enter Carmel.
[/quote]


Don't forget that Teresa of the Andes lived in a convent pre Vatican II so many things have changed since then. At some Carmels, it is still necessary to speak through the Prioress, but at others, it is ok to speak to the sister on either side of you (but not across the room). And in Wolverhampton it depends on whether the Prioress has joined us yet or not. Usually she lets us have Recreation without her for 10-15 minutes (with the Sub-Prioress or one of the senior nuns present) and we can speak with the sister on either side of us privately (or a 3-way conversation if the numbers aren't even because someone hasn't arrived yet). Once Mother joins us though, we address most things to her when we want to share with everyone. And if she is speaking to us all (with news or prayer requests) then we stop talking and listen to her.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

[quote name='ToJesusMyHeart' timestamp='1343969791' post='2461888']
And for those to whom it matters, the Dallas Carmelites all [b]receive our Lord kneeling and on the tongue[/b]. I know for some it doesn't matter, but for others this is of great importance. They also use the communion flap to cover their eyes.
[/quote]

Would anyone happen to know of other communities that do this as well? I know this isn't a deciding factor for wanting to enter; it really is where Our Lord chooses. However, I do receive this way so I am interested to find out.


On a different topic: I was researching more about the Alexandria Carmel and found that they make soap! Here is the website with the details (and some more information about the Carmel) there are also a couple of pictures of some of the Sisters ...thats always exciting! (I just hope they had permission to have them online, as some Carmels are strict about this.)

[url="http://www.monasterygreetings.com/product/Plain_Soap_Bar_Soaps_Organic/Carmelite_Gifts"]http://www.monastery...Carmelite_Gifts[/url]

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! I bought some of that soap for someone as a Christmas present once Yes, I do hope permission was given to post those pictures. I know Alexandria is a strict Carmel, but they might be slightly less strict on this point maybe, like with the picture of Sr. Elizabeth being posted [url="http://www.starofthesea.net/index.php/our-parish/blog/555-the-discalced-carmelite-nuns-of-alexandria-sd-joyfully-announce-the-first-profession-of-sister-elizabeth-of-the-mother-of-god-ocd-catherine-lenoma-clemen"]here[/url] (or maybe again, they just do not know about it!)

Besides these fews things though, they seem to be mostly "offline" They have an IRL profile, which I think is perfect really, only showing them from the back, [url="http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/166"]http://db.religiousl...irl.nsf/org/166[/url]

In reply your first question, I would be very surprised to learn that any Carmel under the 1990s receives Holy Communion in the hand .. very much most likely not. I also prefer to receive this way, following the strong feelings Blessed Teresa of Calcutta has on this, but do not judge others, as receiving on the hand was the only way I learned in CCD

I am sure many/or some 1991 Carmels only receive on the tongue also though, I am guessing, although I did run into this once on an association meeting in Detroit of the [url="http://www.mary-queen-of-carmel-assoc.org/"]Mary, Queen of Carmel Association[/url]

[url="http://churchhistorysurprise.blogspot.com/2011/11/i-mentioned-in-last-entry-that-heresy.html"]http://churchhistory...hat-heresy.html[/url]

[quote]While I was staying at the Passionist Retreat Center there was a conference of Carmelite nuns going on—a meeting of about a hundred cloistered nuns—mostly the Prioresses (mothers superior) and Formation Directors (novice-mistresses) of various monasteries in the United States and Canada, though I did see some younger nuns with the white veils of novices. It was interesting seeing these women outside their monasteries. They were anything but a somber group. There was much laughter and a strong sense of family. They looked very traditional—almost all in the same habit their predecessors had worn for centuries though a few had modified veils that showed a wisp of hair. They were very serious when it came time for prayer and it was a privilege to attend their Mass each morning. I served the Mass—or rather I served the old priest who celebrated the Mass for them each morning. [b]I was surprised to note that at communion not a single nun received communion on the tongue.[/b] Young and old, reverent all, but each nun extended her hands to receive Holy Communion. I mentioned this one day at lunch—I had my meals with them in the retreat dining room—and the nuns at the table all thought for a moment and then began to discuss it. They had never given it much thought, they agreed, it just seemed natural to them. Then one older nun—the prioress of a Carmel on the West Coast—said “Well, why wouldn’t we? The Incarnation is the central mystery of our lives. Holy Mother (Saint Teresa of Avila) says that we should meditate on either the Passion or the Incarnation. When you meditate on the Word Becoming Flesh, you burn with desire to hold the Flesh of the Lord for yourself. In this sacrament, his Flesh becomes our Flesh and our Flesh becomes his. Why should be afraid to touch him? He is our Spouse, the deepest Desire of our being.”[/quote]

I do not post this to judge them though, just in reply to Veni's question. All of these nuns are beautiful members of Christ's Mystical Body and His Beloved Spouses


p.s. reading your question again, I see you are asking both about receiving on the tongue [i]and[/i] kneeling ... after a quick memory scan of some of the different 1990 Carmels I know of .. I know of none that receives standing, I'm pretty sure

[Nunsense]

While I was Kirk Edge (a 1990) Carmel, we switched from receiving on the tongue to receiving in the hand because the Bishop asked everyone in the diocese to do so and Reverend Mother told us that obedience was more important than our own personal feelings and said we should. The Bishop requested this and also stopped the use of the chalice for the congregation because, at the time, there was a scare about some disease going around - I think it might have been Swine Flu (that was in 2009 and I can't remember). We still went up to the Communion window and knelt down but we received on the hand, put the host in our mouth and then got up from the kneeler. So really, nothing is set in stone it seems. They may have switched back since then if the Bishop felt the danger was past (that was nearly 4 years ago).

[Chiquitunga]

Wow, interesting... thanks for sharing nunsense! It's good to know that ordinarily kneeling and receiving on the tongue was what they did/or do again now. But yes, obedience is always the most important. If both the bishop and Reverend Mother Prioress asked, of course you would do so.

The practice of receiving Holy Communion on the hand did actually come from disobedience .. in Germany I believe it was .. then it was allowed .. but it was first an act of disobedience. A very knowledgeable priest shared this with me, but I do not remember all the details. I can ask him though.

But again, if I had been in Kirk Edge at the time and both the local bishop and Prioress requested this, I would obey them, and then be sure to lick my hands (discreetly/when/if possible) where the Host was placed. A Jesuit priest once told me this should be the norm for those who receive in the hand .. to be very careful no crumbs are left on your hand. Depending on the type of Host used, some can leave lots of crumbs as they do at my local parish.. I very often find them on the ledge outside the tabernacle. It is sad .. We've lost so much ..

On another note, there's a new little picture up from the Solemn Profession at Elysburg this week, [url="http://friendsofcarmeljmj.org"]http://friendsofcarmeljmj.org[/url]

Also a great quote from St. Therese [url="http://friendsofcarmeljmj.org/enter/?p=891"]http://friendsofcarm...rg/enter/?p=891[/url]

Edited November 27, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Graciela]

[b]I think future priests and religious, especially, should also be aware that the practice of the early church was always to receive communion in the hand. There are beautiful quotes in the writings of the early fathers of the church about receiving the body of Christ reverently in one's hands. For example, this one from 4th century by [/b]
[b][b]ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM.[/b][/b]
[b](Cateches. Mystagog. v.(1))[/b]
[b]"When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, [b]but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ[/b], saying, Amen."[/b]
[b] [/b]
[b]It was also common for lay people to take some of the consecrated bread home, from which they would communicate themselves during the week or to share with the sick who could not be at Sunday Eucharist. And the early church comunities shared the sacrament under both species. [/b]
[b] [/b]
[b]It is important for people to know the history of liturgical practices and learn that things in Christendom have not been fixed in Council of Trent style for 2 millenia. If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law. [/b]

I endorse neither method of receiving the Blessed Sacrament as preferred- I do pray that we always approach this great gift with holy reverance and gratitude for the merciful love it demonstrates.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

God reward you Chiquitunga for the information! I knew you would have the answer so I'm glad you posted! (I always enjoy your information about Carmel!) Also for the picture of the Sister; I like how they dressed the baby Jesus

Also Nunsense for sharing; that is a beautiful example of obedience and seeing Our Lord in our Superiors and to go about that without saying how you feel about it, but remaining silent and surrending is so beautiful.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

[quote name='Graciela' timestamp='1354046529' post='2517800']
[b]I think future priests and religious, especially, should also be aware that the practice of the early church was always to receive communion in the hand. There are beautiful quotes in the writings of the early fathers of the church about receiving the body of Christ reverently in one's hands. For example, this one from 4th century by [/b]
[b][b]ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM.[/b][/b]
[b](Cateches. Mystagog. v.(1))[/b]
[b]"When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, [b]but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ[/b], saying, Amen."[/b]

[b]It was also common for lay people to take some of the consecrated bread home, from which they would communicate themselves during the week or to share with the sick who could not be at Sunday Eucharist. And the early church comunities shared the sacrament under both species. [/b]

[b]It is important for people to know the history of liturgical practices and learn that things in Christendom have not been fixed in Council of Trent style for 2 millenia. If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law. [/b]

I endorse neither method of receiving the Blessed Sacrament as preferred- I do pray that we always approach this great gift with holy reverance and gratitude for the merciful love it demonstrates.
[/quote]

The Church accepts both ways, so both are the right way for sure. I find that communities differ about how to receive, but as you said too that either way should be done with great love and reverence (and also obedience to The Church); which I believe (and hope!) that they all do, and that I also will always receive with great reverence and love in my heart.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1353960905' post='2517055']
[url="http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/166"]http://db.religiousl...irl.nsf/org/166[/url]
[/quote]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Now and forever.

Chiquitunga I have a question; the picture of the Sister's in this photo: do you know where in the Monastery they are? I just always thought this was a beautiful picture and was curious to know. I thought maybe the Chapel? It looks like a small Altar, but would that be inside the enclosure or the public Chapel?

Edited November 27, 2012 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[inperpetuity]

I think future priests and religious, especially, should also be aware that the practice of the early church was always to receive communion in the hand. There are beautiful quotes in the writings of the early fathers of the church about receiving the body of Christ reverently in one's hands. For example, this one from 4th century by
ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM.
(Cateches. Mystagog. v.(1))
"When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ, saying, Amen."

It was also common for lay people to take some of the consecrated bread home, from which they would communicate themselves during the week or to share with the sick who could not be at Sunday Eucharist. And the early church comunities shared the sacrament under both species.

It is important for people to know the history of liturgical practices and learn that things in Christendom have not been fixed in Council of Trent style for 2 millenia. If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law.

I endorse neither method of receiving the Blessed Sacrament as preferred- I do pray that we always approach this great gift with holy reverance and gratitude for the merciful love it demonstrates.

 

Although I already knew this, I didn't think I could articulate it as well, so I presented this explanation to a good, holy priest I know who is in 100% communion with the Holy See.  This is what he replied:

 

"This is a case of an idea called antiquarianism condemned by Pope Pius XII in his encyclical "Mediator Dei". This error states that just because something was done in the past, it means that it should be done today. However, this disregards the wisdom of the Saints and the legitimate development of Doctrine in the Church. For instance, the full reality and consequences of the Truth of the Real Presence was not as thoroughly understood in the early Church until the more profound understanding of Metaphysics and Transubstantiation was expounded by St. Thomas Aquinas and defined as Dogma in the 1200's. Over time, the Church has developed a much stronger sense of reverence for the True Presence even in the small Particles of the Eucharist. For instance, the priest must hold his fingers together after touching the Eucharist lest any particles be lost. He only allows his fingers (that touch the Eucharist) to separate after he ritually cleanses his fingers after Communion. Thus, the idea of the Eucharist be handled by unconsecrated hands that are not ritually cleansed has the effect of diminishing the belief and reverence in the True Presence that has increased since the 1200's. Communion in the hand inevitably means that Sacred Particles end up remaining on people's hands and then are simply transferred to WHEREEVER??!! those hands may end up touching in the course of the next few hours. KYRIE ELEISON. For instance, it is not completely uncommon to see Communicants brushing their hands on their clothes after Communion. And there are much less reverent places that the Sacred Particles end up. CHRISTE ELEISON. For instance, it is a fact that satanists have been grateful that thanks to Communion in the hand, they can now steal Hosts with great ease so that they can desecrate the Holy Eucharist in their black masses. KYRIE ELEISON." Fr. X.

I agree:   If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law.   

 

[Chiquitunga]

inperpetuity, thank you so much for that.... what a great explanation there from this priest!

 

I have been meaning to reply here, but at the same time did not want to debate. It would be a shame to see this thread closed, as it has turned out to be pretty interesting and information packed on different Carmels :like: I was searching for a good thread to link to respond in the Debate table, but cannot find any good ones not archived already. But here is a post I made in one last year, http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/111302-communion-in-hand-or-on-tounge-is-there-any-debate/?p=2216071

 

I would recommend especially watching the first few minutes of the one by the young man Gabriel regarding pieces of the Host remaining on one's hands. I am pretty sure I can remember brushing excess crumbs that remained on my hand on my clothes too .... :( pretty sure about that.. The Church does asks that the faithful receiving on the hand take precautions that no Sacred Particle be lost. Gabriel quotes this from a document, although I cannot remember which one. But he sums up this point pretty well here in the second part. 

 

I too knew of the early Christians receiving Our Lord on the hand, but it was done in a much different way as articulated well here by Bishop Athanasius Schneider (whole video is worth watching)

 

In my above statement then, I should have said, the re-introduction of Communion in the hand originated in disobedience, and was done so for years before being permitted. And as the holy priest (not extreme Traditionalist, btw) who told me this said, "God will not build anything on that foundation."

[Chiquitunga]

http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/166

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Now and forever. :)

Chiquitunga I have a question; the picture of the Sister's in this photo: do you know where in the Monastery they are? I just always thought this was a beautiful picture and was curious to know. I thought maybe the Chapel? It looks like a small Altar, but would that be inside the enclosure or the public Chapel?

 

I would guess it's a little oratory somewhere within the enclosure .. maybe where they placed their Infant Jesus statue, which is a replica of the original miraculous one in Grand Rapids (now Ada, pronounced aide-a :like: http://www.carmelitenuns.org/) 

 

It's definitely not in the nuns' choir nor the public chapel, as I have seen pictures of both. I should email you them! :) There was an article and several pictures in the Immaculate Heart Messenger magazine from 1997 when they were founded (I ordered a back issue and they still had a few left!) I have it all scanned in already, so I shall email you it. 

Edited December 8, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Graciela]

I do not want to cause a stir or debate in response to inperpetuity's post but the priest and the encyclical she reports seem to dismiss a saint and doctor of the church, St. cyril of Jerusalem, as antiquarian and not really appreciative of the Real Presence. I feel some urge to point out that some of these early saints and doctors of the church write beautifully about the Eucharist and the reception of the Body and Blood of our Lord. Their devotion and faith were not deficient because the "how is Christ present?" question that St. Thomas Aquinas answered with the delineation of transubstantiation had not yet been debated and defined.

The church currently allows both means of receiving and so this priest's implication that receiving in the hand risks sacred particles being lost or satanists stealing hosts seems to imply that the magisterial decision to allow reception in hand is in error. I do share the concern that some who approach communion and receive in the hand are very casual about it and that much better catechesis is/was needed. That's way I liked St. Cyril's instructions about how to receive in the hand with one hand cupped beneath the other and moving both up to the mouth as a good examples of how to receive in the hand reverently and carefully.

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ!!! First, I moved the conversation regarding receiving Holy Communion to this thread in the Debate Table :like: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/111302-communion-in-hand-or-on-tounge-is-there-any-debate/?p=2525718

 

Second, I'm linking the Traverse City new chapel thread here - http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/124220-traverse-city-carmel-chapel-renovations/?p=2527332

 

Third .... Merry Christmas!!!

 

 

 

Mandaquin (sp?) statues from Mexico (as they call them there) of the Blessed Virgin and Infant Jesus on display in the public chapel for Christmas at Grand Rapids (Ada) Carmel - http://myjourneywithmary.blogspot.com/2012/01/recent-mary-sightings.html

 

I've seen them and they are so beautiful!!!!  :heart: The Extern called them "mandakin" statues (not "mannequin") and that they are from Mexico and are flexible so they can position them in different ways .. and they have a few others they put out at special feasts/times of the year.  

 

They also have the Miraculous Infant Jesus out in the public chapel for Christmas until the Epiphany every year too (separate from this one and kept in a glass case) which Mother Elias brought with her when she fled the persecutions, which is over 300 years old the Extern told me ... all very beautiful and inspiring!!! :saint:

 

Cristo Rey has statues like this from Mexico for their Nativity scene in the public chapel too

 

 

http://www.catholic-sf.org/ns.php?newsid=22&id=60849

 

Advent and Christmas season visitors will discover something new each time they stop in to visit the crèche at the Carmelite Monastery of Cristo Rey in San Francisco. The figures of Mary and Joseph, the shepherd and the wise men, are moved around, and animals are added throughout the season..

 

neat!!! 

 

btw, a few more pictures from there, http://web.stagram.com/location/902470 & http://campaigns.vocationnetwork.org/www/delivery/ai.php?filename=333box_3.gif&contenttype=gif

 

 

¡¡¡Feliz Navidad!!!   :harp: 

Edited December 26, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Praised be Jesus Christ, and Merry Christmas!

 

God reward you Chiquitunga for the post above. A beautiful one to see when I came back on here! The statue is beautiful. :heart:

 

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures (if and when any are posted) of the new Chapel in Traverse City! The description that they have on the site you posted (http://www.stroik.com/portfolio/monastery-of-the-infant-jesus-of-prague/) sounds wonderful.

 

Also just to add because its so beautiful to contemplate; One of the antiphons for Lauds in "The Little Office of The Blessed Virgin Mary" for Christmastide: "A wonderful mystery is declared today: new things are wrought in nature; God is made man. What He was He hath remained, and what He was not He hath assumed, suffering neither confusion nor division."

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

 

http://www.catholic-sf.org/ns.php?newsid=22&id=60849

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! another picture from Cristo Rey's nativity scene :heart:

 

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

I was wondering if anyone knows the correct mailing address for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Alexandria, South Dakota. I found three different ones online(which seems a bit strange:)

 

P.O Box 67

Alexandria, SD 57311

 

 

211 5th St
Alexandria, SD 57311
 

 

P.O Box 67 221 5th Street West

Alexandria, SD 57311

 

Thanks so much! :)

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

Oh, it's just that one is their Post Office Box and one their actual street address, the third one combined. I am sure if you send it to any of them, it'll get there, although I would go without option # 3 with both PO Box & street address, in case they don't have the PO Box any more. Also the newsletter I have from them (the one I emailed you :j) has this full address & it's printed on the envelope this way too  :like:

[Chiquitunga]

Happy Solemnity of the Epiphany of Our Lord! another picture from Grand Rapids Carmel :heart: