AccountDeleted Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 We can only drag this on for so long. Let's leave Gemma in peace and stop pestering her. It's not getting anybody anywhere and it's doing more harm than good. I don't know what thread you are reading, but I see some discussions about hermits and different forms of hermit lifestyle as well as the original thread that Gemma started. She promoted her version of canon 603 hermit life, and we have discussed that. She also said that she would return after the new year to address some of SrLaurel's questions which have not been answered. But even if she doesn't, threads often diverge from the OP to discuss similar areas of the same topic, such as hermits in general and hermits in particular. This thread has the benefit of hearing from someone who is already a consecrated hermit and who knows the canon laws applicable to this state. She has provided us with relevant information and we have gone on to discuss alternative forms of consecrated life that have diocesan approval, especially with regard to canon 603 and how that is interpreted. I think that in the past (I notice you are very new to phatmass), some things have been swept under the carpet or ignored in the hope that they would go away. For quite some time, Cloister Outreach was not discussed here because the same types of questions were raised and evaded and people said to let it drop. But it continues to surface again and again and new people who join phatmass have as much right as us oldies to know about the history and the unanswered questions so as long as Gemma continues to promote her communities and hermit lifestyles then there will those who continue to ask the tough questions and ask her to be accountable for what she posts. You are bumping this thread with a specific mention of Gemma. Most of the last posts have not referred to her at all. I really don't understand what you are hoping to achieve here unless it is simply to bury the facts about CO. I hope that doesn't happen because it is important that new communities be held accountable to the Church authorities and not just do their own thing. As for what AL says - starting another thread about the hermit topic - no problem at all. But the way this discussion went was a natural progression from something specific (Cloister Outreach) to something more general - hermits, and then to another specific - Hermits of Bethlehem. There is a lot of defensiveness about this thread when Gemma was the one who started it, prompting enquiries about what she was promoting. I would think that she (and her supporters) would be glad of an opportunity to resolve all questions and lay all doubts to rest but that wasn't what we were discussing when you bumped it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2fbpCUmrTE[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) All the best to you in Carmel, nunsense. This thread just reeks of bullying and although the topic has shifted, the bullying is still here to witness if so desired, and I really wish that wasn't the case. Some say bullying has not been done here, but when so many are saying that it feels like bullying is the case, then perhaps it's wise to stop the conversation just because of the appearance of such uncharitable behavior. Yes, I'm new here comparatively, but that shouldn't automatically discredit me. I've more posts than srlaurel here, so if you're willing to accept her as a credible source, my amount of posts on here shouldn't be a factor either. I'm just tired of this thread and its negative connotations towards Gemma and CO, when Gemma has been nothing but helpful in my own discernment. Again, all the best to you in Carmel. :) Edited December 23, 2012 by ToJesusMyHeart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2fbpCUmrTE[/media] thank you Winchester!! :) I used to like Herman and the Hermits - but they are pretty bubble-gum aren't they? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) All the best to you in Carmel, nunsense. This thread just reeks of bullying and although the topic has shifted, the bullying is still here to witness if so desired, and I really wish that wasn't the case. Some say bullying has not been done here, but when so many are saying that it feels like bullying is the case, then perhaps it's wise to stop the conversation just because of the appearance of such uncharitable behavior. Yes, I'm new here comparatively, but that shouldn't automatically discredit me. I've more posts than srlaurel here, so if you're willing to accept her as a credible source, my amount of posts on here shouldn't be a factor either. I'm just tired of this thread and its negative connotations towards Gemma and CO, when Gemma has been nothing but helpful in my own discernment. Again, all the best to you in Carmel. :) Well, all I can say is that I am sorry that 1) you are seeing it all as bullying instead of an attempt to clarify misconceptions and misinformation and 2) you feel you have to say one thing while meaning another - but I will do you the courtesy (which you fail to show me) of accepting your words at face value when you wish me well in Carmel (although it doesn't sound that way) and 3) you can't see the valuable contribution being made by someone who not only talks about the consecrated hermit life, but who is also living it every day. She deserves the respect we show clergy and religious who live consecrated lives recognised by the Church. If I do take SrLaurel's words a little more seriously than yours, it is only because she knows what she is talking about from actually living the life whereas you may have read a lot or heard a lot but don't have the experience yet. It is not so much on how many posts have been made but on how much time has been spent here on phatmass reading the same things over and over again about some topics, and about listening to the voice of experience, not emotions. Winchester has it right - we all need to lighten up a little. If I am to take you at your word that you really do wish me all the best then maybe you could pay me the same courtesy of trying to accept my words at face value when I say I am not trying to bully anyone, but I do have serious concerns about some people being misled about some claims for CO and see nothing wrong in someone trying to clarify really muddy waters. I think there has been only one post that could be taken as a personal attack and that was made in another thread, that a moderator rightly closed. This thread has been very civilised. PS - edited to add: I am so glad that Gemma has been helpful to you. As I have posted several times, her information about other communities is very good and a useful resource for those discerning. This is a very laudable effort. My only concerns are with her own communities that do not really exist. I am sure many people are gratful to her for her help in discerning vocations to other communities and I think this is a praiseworthy thing she does there. Edited December 23, 2012 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The thing is, her communities DO really exist, as I am a part of one of them--the Holy Innocents listserv group. The foundress (not Gemma) is working on the formation of the charism/spirituality/etc of the Holy Innocents. Anyway, I am sad that you think I was sarcastic or something about wishing you well in Carmel. I was not sarcastic or anything but sincere. I do wish you the best and I really wish you didn't think I was insincere just because we have a disagreement about the way this thread has been managed. Carmel is a beautiful place and I've been at several Carmelite monasteries for Mass and prayer with the nuns. I truly hope your calling is in your UK Carmel and that you spend your days in peace and joy, uniting yourself with Jesus as you yearn for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think y'all should twist your habits and just snap each other until a clear victor emerges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think y'all should twist your habits and just snap each other until a clear victor emerges. Have I told you lately that I love you? :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Have I told you lately that I love you? :love: No, but feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I find some of these posts unduly mean and confrontative in a very uncharitable spirit. I really believe that if someone has a question of a negative/accusatory nature, if should be handled privately. If public information has been given out that is wrong, the poster should be corrected and the post(s) deleted. This whole stream of posts is very disheartening and I am disappointed to read them here when I come here for links, information and good news. This has really degraded into something ugly. Gemma has been very open about her disabilities in the past and some of the questions/posts border on bullying. After what our country has just witnessed, I'm shocked there isn't more sensitivity to mental challenges. I hope this thread gets deleted. I don't care if a hermit nun is the one bullying or not. nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) The thing is, her communities DO really exist, as I am a part of one of them--the Holy Innocents listserv group. The foundress (not Gemma) is working on the formation of the charism/spirituality/etc of the Holy Innocents. Anyway, I am sad that you think I was sarcastic or something about wishing you well in Carmel. I was not sarcastic or anything but sincere. I do wish you the best and I really wish you didn't think I was insincere just because we have a disagreement about the way this thread has been managed. Carmel is a beautiful place and I've been at several Carmelite monasteries for Mass and prayer with the nuns. I truly hope your calling is in your UK Carmel and that you spend your days in peace and joy, uniting yourself with Jesus as you yearn for. You are misunderstanding the difference between CONF and CO. They are not the same and there is no debate over the activities of CONF which supports other new communities, that might very well be real and valid. But I am not going to debate this whole thing with you again because SrLaurel covered it quite well several times in previous posts. You can read them again slowly if you really want to understand what is at question here. As for your wishes about Carmel, I told you, I will take you at face value, no matter what your intentions. We have not always agreed in the past and you sometimes come across as passive-aggressive towards me, but my point was that if you want me to think the best of you, it would help if you did the same towards me when I post things. Yes, Carmel is a beautiful place indeed. I have lived in 4 of them (count em 4) and this is my last chance - a gift from God of being allowed to return to the first monastery I ever entered. Today I received an e-card from Reverend Mother (a jacquie lawson Christmas card) that shows a procession of choir boys walking into a church singing a Christmas carol. The church door shuts behind them as the last one enters. Then a few seconds later, another little choir boy comes running to the church door but drops his song book on the ground and turns around to look at it, and then at the closed door again. Then he just stands where he is outside the door and joins in the Christmas carol with all the others, and his voice is pure and lovely. If the card wasn't sweet enough, Mother wrote that she hopes next year I will be inside with the choir instead of outside. It brought tears to my eyes to know that they want me there as much as I want to be there with them. Phatmass will be behind me and there will be no more endless debates about whether or not I am trying to bully someone by simply expressing my concerns about things that might adversely affect someone who is sincerely discerning religious life or life as a consecrated hermit. Believe me, there are real concerns involved here - take me at my word as I will try to do you - ok? No offence intended, honestly. PS - phatmass may be behind me (no reading phorums) but I will miss all the dear friends I have made here .... like Winchester :) Edited December 23, 2012 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 All the best to you in Carmel, nunsense. This thread just reeks of bullying and although the topic has shifted, the bullying is still here to witness if so desired, and I really wish that wasn't the case. Some say bullying has not been done here, but when so many are saying that it feels like bullying is the case, then perhaps it's wise to stop the conversation just because of the appearance of such uncharitable behavior. nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 What about Cenobites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Honestly, I wasn't really referring to you when I said it seems like bullying is going on. The bottom line is this: Gemma is not trying to hurt anybody or lead anybody astray. She is trying to help. She cares. She wants people to find their religious vocations. Continuous interrogation when she has stated quite plainly that she cannot answer all the questions at once just seems uncharitable and unfair. It seems expressing my thoughts has gotten us nowhere. Peace be with you, and a happy Advent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureCarmeliteClaire Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 WOW. This is a mess now, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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