Protestant-proofing Our Kids

[Livin_the_MASS]

All talk about living the Gospel and your on everyone else here about doing this and that, the wooden beam in the eye verse is coming to mind here!

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 26 2004, 07:59 PM']
[b]You just showed your fruit [/b] [/quote]
Yea, I got better things to do than sit here and debate all the time unlike maybe some of you are willing to do. I have other things to do like taking care of myself, FEEDING myself, it was dinner time ya know. Or assisting my brother with his homework, or being there for a friend who just had a bad day.

First off, I wanna clarify a few things.

1) The issue of the topic of this thread. I was talking to Azaelia on MSN the past few minutes. She told me this topic is mainly about how to protect your catholic children from protestant LIES about the catholic church. Yet the topic name, "Protestant-proofing Our Kids" sounded much like an anti-protestant thread. Sorta like, "Protestants bad bad bad, must protect our children from their heritic attics" attitude. And you know me, I'm against ANY bashing of whatever denomination. So in my opinion, I think this thread should have been posted in a more appropiate area than the debate forum, where you would expect a what? A debate.. I'm too tired to remember but if you have a dedicated Catholic forum you could post it there or even the Open Mic may have been a better place. And also too please clarify it too, like "Protecting your children from protestant lies" or something like that.

2) In the last thread with replies posted by Katholikos, he said something about the Catholic doctrine not teaching about 'instant salvation.' I first took that as, oh lovely, so your saying you gotta do like these rituals and be in the catholic church to be considered Saved and going to heaven? Now maybe he meant that, or maybe not. Though when I look at that, I now believe he meant that once you ask Jesus to come into your life, and confess your sins of course, then you gotta start ACTING upon your Faith. To have Jesus come into your heart then choose to live like the world, isn't a true Christian. And God wants nothing to do with lukewarm people, or people who are on the 'Christian ban wagon' so they can at least have eternal life. But if a man on his death bed knew he screwed up on his life, and was truly sorry in his heart and asked Jesus to come into Him so he can live with Christ. No doubt in my mind Jesus would say, yes. And if Katholikos meant something else than this, then I totally do not agree.

3) When I was speaking alot about children not being Saved through the catholic schools or when I was speaking of anything 'against' Catholics, some of you may have misunderstood me. My argument is to people, not the Church. To the people who believe if you aren't Catholic, then you aren't really Saved. That God won't work through people who aren't Catholic, that He won't annoint them unless they're Catholic. Or that the Holy Spirit can't give them revelation unless they're Catholic. I don't know the Vatican II inside and out, but I doubt that the catholic doctrine teaches them being the only way to truth and life. Yes, the Church has more historical data of the early church than any denomination, and I fully admit that. I look at them as the first Church and the Church that the Lord originally intended to be, the Church He chose. And yes, from rebellion came the protestants, yet as I explained it with the illistration with Ishmael and Jacob, still, God blessed Ishmael.


I'm sorry for taking a while to post this, I had to run out with my Dad to grab a piece of furniture (again, forgive my spelling) for my Mom around the corner, then come back and finish this post up.

This is my final post here, I have no hard feelings against anyone here, and I'm sorry if I may have come across on certain subjects a bit too harsh. But also remember, Jesus, nor Paul, nor even Steven talked all happy and dandy when they were upset with something. I just don't wanna sound like a robot like many Christians tend to be these days.

God bless, and have a good night.

[Ellenita]

There will be no criticism of Phatmass mums....[b]they are all wonderful[/b], raising their children strong in the faith...... the 'fruits' of this will extend far beyond what you can imagine....

They are also exceptionally generous in sharing their children with those of us who don't have them, and sharing their very precious 'free time' with everyone at Phatmass. We learn so much from their wisdom. It is a privilege and a joy to know them....

I count it a blessing to be able to pray for the Phatmass mums and their children.

And Anna is one of the best.....

[littleflower+JMJ]

rituals of the Catholic Church are not bad, especially those Jesus and his apostles instituted themselves....coming from God, not from man. (i.e. sacraments)

clearly Jesus didnt come to leave a book, but a Church and the way to Truth....

Scripture is written word but Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Succession are two very important elements that are unwritten that rely on the unbroken succession and passing down of the Church's teachings of what the early church fathers (from Jesus' time believed)....thousands years old still alive and strong today fully in the Catholic Church alone.....

one cannot miss out on those two if wanting to follow Jesus and His teachings.

without it, its like trying to call home and you can't cuz the phone line is disconnected...



pax.

+JMJ+

[Anna]

Awwwwwww Dude, Raphael....

I hope you meant you're not going to post here again [i]tonight,[/i] but will be back again tomorrow and again the next day...

Hope you say you'll be back!

Pax Christi. <><

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]like "Protecting your children from protestant lies"[/quote]

That is our duty as Catholics too pray and keep our children from error, their souls are our responsibilty! If you know the Truth are you supposed to deny it? NO!

[quote]In the last thread with replies posted by Katholikos, he said something about the Catholic doctrine not teaching about 'instant salvation.' I first took that as, oh lovely, so your saying you gotta do like these rituals and be in the catholic church to be considered Saved and going to heaven? [/quote]

#1) Likos is cool man he knows his stuff and he says it like it is, you got to remember some of these threads where started because of people who have been here awhile so he was making his points clear.

#2) Yes the Catholic Church has the "Fullness of Truth" no other church does nor can they claim it. God is One, His Church is One! Those outside the Church are considered in union as long as they are baptized properly. The union is not a perfect full union though.


[quote]To the people who believe if you aren't Catholic, then you aren't really Saved. That God won't work through people who aren't Catholic, that He won't annoint them unless they're Catholic. [/quote]

With God all things are possible, now if you know the Truth and reject then we can sing a different tune. God has touched alot of people who were not Catholic at first look at Scott Hahn! God can use anybody, I don't think anyone has said this?


[quote]I don't know the Vatican II inside and out, but I doubt that the catholic doctrine teaches them being the only way to truth and life. Yes, the Church has more historical data of the early church than any denomination, and I fully admit that. I look at them as the first Church and the Church that the Lord originally intended to be, the Church He chose. And yes, from rebellion came the protestants, yet as I explained it with the illistration with Ishmael and Jacob, still, God blessed Ishmael.[/quote]

There is only One Church with salvation the Catholic Church, if you know this and reject it, not good! God's Mercy is beyond our intellect so my job is not to condem or judge but to give witness to the Truth. So if someone outside the Catholic Church doesn't know better or is searching [b]truly[/b], again with God all thing are possible!


God Bless you, come back later!
Pax
Jason

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 26 2004, 09:26 PM'] There is only One Church with salvation the Catholic Church, if you know this and reject it, not good! God's Mercy is beyond our intellect so my job is not to condem or judge but to give witness to the Truth. So if someone outside the Catholic Church doesn't know better or is searching [b]truly[/b], again with God all thing are possible!


God Bless you, come back later!
Pax
Jason [/quote]

I'll still be posting but eventually not here though. Why be like the Pharasees and continue a debate that apparently not many seemed to be enjoying? I came to make my point, and I did, I'm not gonna force anyone to believe what I do, nor do I intend to. But I just have one question I need for clarification, and it's directed to Jason.

What did you mean by the quote there? I don't wanna misjudge anything if I don't know the true motive. But when you said that, do you mean that anyone who knows the Catholic church was the church God may have intended it to be, that if they don't begin believing or going to it, that they aren't Saved? Again, I just wanna be clear on your comment there.

[quote]That is our duty as Catholics too pray and keep our children from error, their souls are our responsibilty! If you know the Truth are you supposed to deny it? NO! [/quote]

Of course not, you gotta defend what is true. But I still believe it should have been named differently, the topic that is. That was my point, it just looked like an old protestant bashing thread. When in reality, you just wanted to discuss ways to keep your children from believing certain lies that protestants have been saying about the Catholics that aren't true, even though you know not all protestants too believe the lies.

Edited May 27, 2004 by Archangel Raphael

[Bruce S]

I want my kids to LOVE Christ.

I could care less what denomination they belong to.

I want my kids to LOVE Jesus.

Wherever they find Him ALIVE

I want my kids to know the Holy Spirit

And He isn't confined to a building.

And may God lead them to HIM, not keep them where I want them to worship.

Amen.

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='May 26 2004, 09:38 PM'] I want my kids to LOVE Christ.

I could care less what denomination they belong to.

I want my kids to LOVE Jesus.

Wherever they find Him ALIVE

I want my kids to know the Holy Spirit

And He isn't confined to a building.

And may God lead them to HIM, not keep them where I want them to worship.

Amen. [/quote]
Uber Amen to that man

[azaelia]

My work here is done. I'm out.

[Livin_the_MASS]

I am saying if one knows in his heart the Truths of the Catholic Chruch and rejects it, "harden their hearts" could mean trouble. I was watching EWTN the other day and they were talking about when someone dies the soul leaves the body and God calls out to the soul, the soul can still make the choice, but it's up to us!

God wants the salvation of souls, it's our job to pray sacrifice and make reparation for these souls and there salvation. We are partakers of the One Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

But if one knows and rejects Truth till his death, not good! I always hope, God is always waiting, but He loves us enough to give us a free will and not to impose it. He will call out, but He will not force Himself on us, we inturn have to call out to Him and meet in a total loving embrace.

God Bless
Jason

[littleflower+JMJ]

when im a parent im going to want [i]and give[/i] the best to my children, becuase that is what they deserve and that is what God is going to expect from me.

that they [b]know[/b] Him the way He instructed us to know him.

i want them to be the one to be able to learn from me, their parent, what is truth, and not only that but live it.

as a parent, it is our obligation to God who has given them to us, to show them the way back to Him.

pax.

+JMJ+

[Archangel Raphael]

*nods a bit* So the answer is yes, if they know the Catholic church was found by God, and choose not to go to it, then they are in for damnation, right? Again, just making trying to be sure I understand it right.

About choosing to go to heaven or not. In all respect I don't agree with that, but I do agree that when Jesus comes back and calls us out (in the Rapture), that we do have a choice to go or not. Mainly cause everything is by free will, and when we accept Christ during this lifetime in our hearts, we automatically made the choice to go to heaven. But that's my opinion, don't have to counter it, I just would like to be sure I understood the whole thing about salvation through the Catholic church bit.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]I want my kids to LOVE Christ.[/quote]
Awesome


[quote]I could care less what denomination they belong to.[/quote]
Not good!


[quote]I want my kids to LOVE Jesus.[/quote]
Awesome again!


[quote]And He isn't confined to a building.[/quote]
Ahhh, but He is a prisoner of love in all the tabernacles of the world, He is our Food to become one with us. God and man, The Holy Eucharist such a loving intimate relationship!


God Bless Bruce, been awhile!
Pax
Jason

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='May 26 2004, 08:52 PM'] *nods a bit* So the answer is yes, if they know the Catholic church was found by God, and choose not to go to it, then they are in for damnation, right? Again, just making trying to be sure I understand it right.

About choosing to go to heaven or not. In all respect I don't agree with that, but I do agree that when Jesus comes back and calls us out (in the Rapture), that we do have a choice to go or not. Mainly cause everything is by free will, and when we accept Christ during this lifetime in our hearts, we automatically made the choice to go to heaven. But that's my opinion, don't have to counter it, I just would like to be sure I understood the whole thing about salvation through the Catholic church bit. [/quote]
[quote][b]However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.[/b][/quote]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp"]LINK[/url]

Rapture? From what I found in Sacred Scripture there is no Rapture if you want I'll explain I'll leave it here for now

God Bless
Jason

[Archangel Raphael]

Nope thats ok, I just wanted to know, thanks.

[Livin_the_MASS]

I'm board so I post for the sake of boardness

Look

[b]Mattew 13: 36-43.[/b]

[quote]Then, dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples approached him and said, Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.* He said in reply, He who sows good seed is the Son of Man*the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, *and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned {up} with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.[b]*The Son Of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of thier Father. WHOEVER HAS EAR OUGHT TO HEAR.[/b][/quote]

Bold added by me this shows that at the end when Jesus sends His angel to gather the "weeds" you want to be left here not taken away. He comes to take the evil out of the world!

Forgive my boardness!
God Bless
your servant
Jason

[BeenaBobba]

First of all, parents [b]must[/b] teach their kids the Catholic Faith. If they don't, it will go in one ear and out the other. I was educated in Catholic schools until 8th grade, and while I retained some of what I learnt, I wasn't very well instructed in the teachings of the Catholic Church. (It wasn't until about two years ago that I started learning about Catholicism in-depth.) I don't want to blame my parents or anything because perhaps they weren't taught as well as they should have been. All of that being said, I think that it's vitally important that families pray together and go to Mass together. Children learn from their parents, so if their parents make Mass the center of their day or week, then the children will likely follow suit. Instilling strong Eucharistic devotion is also very important. Strong Catholic parents who love God and the Church will likely raise kids who do as well. I've heard of people leaving the Church because they didn't "feel anything" at Mass. Catholic parents, therefore, need to help to build up a great love in their children for Our Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the saints, the Catholic Church, and the Mass. On the other hand, however, they shouldn't be lead to believe that emotionalism is necessary for faith and the love of God. Of course, the highest premiums should be on faith, hope, and love.

I think that a lot of the problem is a lack of good catechesis. Children aren't learning true-blue Catholicism at CCD, at school, and -- most importantly -- at home. I think Catholic teaching needs to be drilled into childrens' heads from a very early age (figuratively, of course ). They need to be taught what the Catholic Church teaches, but just as importantly, they need to be taught [i]why[/i] the Catholic Church teaches what it does. Kids need to be [b]immersed[/b] in Scripture, Tradition, and Church history. I will even want my kids to have Scripture passages and the correct, Catholic interpretations memorized. So, if they're approached by one of their Protestant buddies who "inform" them that the papacy is unbiblical, and that Jesus never gave Peter special authority, I will make sure that my future kids will be well-equipped to answer that by citing Matthew 16 and Isaiah 22 and the exegeses of those two passages, as examples. I really do think that apologetics needs to be taught from an early age. Too often, non-Catholic Christians will tell Catholic kids or teenagers: "You know, Mary had other biological children. See!" Then they'll show them the passage(s) where the word "brother" is used in English. Not knowing the Greek behind these passages, and not taking the usage and context of the Greek word(s) into consideration, it is all too easy for uneducated Catholics to be like, "Well, hey, I guess the Catholic Church was wrong about Mary. After all, the Bible clearly says that Jesus had other brothers and perhaps even sisters." Had they known the basis for the Catholic belief on this and how to defend it, they'd have never been lead astray.

On another note, there are some heterodox Catholic schools. (Unfortunately, there are [i]too many[/i] heterodox Catholic schools.) If there are orthodox Catholic schools, however, Catholics have a canonical obligation to send their children there (provided that they can afford it). If there's no good Catholic schools around, I'd strongly recommend homeschooling. I will homeschool my kids if there's no good Catholic schools around (and if my future husband and I can afford to do so).

God bless,

Jennifer

[hopeful1]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='May 26 2004, 05:19 PM'] I think what the purpose of this thread was (and again, correct me if I am wrong) to understand ways to keep kids from losing their faith either by following the world [b]or[/b] by being lead into other religions-- even Protestant ones. This is not saying that Protestants are horrible pagans, but it is not the same as the Catholic faith. Many Catholics who are [b]poorly educated[/b] in their faith go off and join other Christian churches because they actually learn something about Christ (perhaps for the first time). They learn and grow there... However, they never go back to the Church to find out the rest of the story (as Paul Harvey would say)... many feel the Church has let them down or lied to them. I think the idea of this thread is how to encourage growth in our Catholic children without them leaving the faith.

In my humble opinion it is better to be an on-fire Protestant than a nominal indifferent Catholic. The goal is to create more on fire Catholics. [/quote]
amen to that!

and just to add, if your kids do go to Catholic schools (or CCD) find out about what they are learning and enforce what they are learning at home. too many parents are lazy about that, and just figure "i'll just let the school do the teaching" and not take an active role in their childs religious education. And for those of you who complained, i don't think this problem is just limited to catholics, but it should be applied to protestant homes as well.

happy?

[hopeful1]

ok, hopeful1 sees she got into this thread a little too late... :ph34r:

*runs back out*

*suddenly runs back in*

does it help anyone to understand the situation if say for example, a family from a foreign country, comes to america (like back when we had the immigration in the ellis island days). let's say there from china, a culture very different from ours, and the kid's trying to fit in hanging out with the american kids and he trys out all these "american" type stuff. the parents seem to notice this but are afraid as he's more exposed to american culture, the child may start to lose his cultural identity and reject the chinese traditions (which seem weird to his american friends) for american ones.

ok, i'm trying to use that as an analogy, to help explain the situation for catholic parents, but maybe it was a bad one. but i hope it at least clarifies the situation. on behalf of our protestant friends, i don't believe this post was meant to be offensive, and i apologize if any of you were. but i'm sure you guys struggle with this on some degree with your kids too. but i think this is basically the issue at heart.