Religion

[Seven77]

Give me some quotes Future Priest...Take it away...That's fine...No I don't believe God ok'd women and children to be killed in the o.t. And no I don't think God said it was ok to rape then...If that doesn't make me church militant o well...And no I really can't stand religion...If me saying I hate islam and all the killing of innocent people in religions name causes me not to be church militant o well...

 

Hate the killing of innocent people in religion's name and offer your frustrations to God, uniting them to the Cross. Prayers.

[Basilisa Marie]

People do all kinds of things for bad reasons.  Up until very recently in history, religion and the state were incredibly intertwined.  If you want to manipulate someone into doing what you want, the most effective way is to get them to thing that there's some kind of eternal consequences associated with it.  It's not religion that is the problem. It's people abusing religion that is the problem. 

[the171]

Stop bickering.

[Chestertonian]

Give me some quotes Future Priest...Take it away...That's fine...No I don't believe God ok'd women and children to be killed in the o.t. And no I don't think God said it was ok to rape then...If that doesn't make me church militant o well...And no I really can't stand religion...If me saying I hate islam and all the killing of innocent people in religions name causes me not to be church militant o well...

 

Where does this God you speak of come from, if not from religion?

[Anastasia13]

So this thread would be the wrong place to wax philosophically about this matter?

[Socrates]

People kill and have killed in the name of just about anything.  Far more people have been killed in the name of atheistic Marxism than all religions put together.

 

As I only believe in the Catholic Faith, I could care less about "religion" as a vague collective.  I don't believe in Islam, so what Muslims or others do or don't do has absolutely zero bearing on my faith.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

People kill and have killed in the name of just about anything.  Far more people have been killed in the name of atheistic Marxism than all religions put together.

 

You are so right. That argument intrigues me because its used by both theists and atheists. In fact, we often see it used by both sides in the same debate (Example: D'Souza vs. Hitchens). With Stalin and Hitler, it seems like they just happened to be Atheist and Catholic. I don't think their intentions were actually, "I'm going to kill _______, in the name of __________."

They were just lunatics who would have done the same thing regardless of their belief systems. 

Edited April 20, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Apotheoun]

Based upon the definition given to the word "religion" (θρησκεία in the Greek and religio in the Latin) in Sacred Scripture and the Tradition of the Fathers it is impossible to kill in the name of the true religion (i.e., Christianity). People may be claiming to kill in the name of religion at various times in history, but they are in fact killing in the name of a false ideology that merely masquerades as religion, and that is true when it comes to the brutality of the Crusaders or Jihadists. It is important to remember one other thing, Islam (or any other non-Christian ideology) is not religion in the proper sense of the word, but is instead a man-made thing that is ultimately destructive of human freedom and dignity.

[Anastasia13]

James 1:27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.

 

True religion is good. It is the misuse and abuse of it that is bad. It is the affect of sin in humanity that soils it. It is a fallen world and we are a fallen people, but a religion cannot be judged simply on the basis of those who misuse it, who act on their own, deceived or deceiving others in the deeds.  All religions have people that do this. Islamic radicals kill with terrorism attacks, Catholics had the crusades and (not to say it is equal to extra killing of that) had sex scandals, Jews attacked other people to obtain the original Promised Land, Hindus attack Christians in India, life is full of "religious" people doing the wrong thing, both in history and in the present. We can't hate a religion as a whole based on those people. If you hate everything about Islam, then you hate the charity that is one of their five pillars, and that charity is laudable in Christianity as well.

 

Even where there is misuse, abuse, and deception, there can be, and many times are, glimpses of truth. As Christians, we simply see that truth more clearly, though yet imperfectly. (1 Cor. 13:12). Where there is truth, we should love that truth, for it is the revelation of the divine reality that transcends this passing world. It is that reality that there are different glimpses of that reveal the God of love, a love so profound that He would send us a savior. It is a glimpse toward the salvation that overcomes the world. (1 John 5) I would venture to guess that it is the deception and the wrong choices of those who refuse or turn from what is of God rather that you hate. We can all hate that. It is a tragedy to their souls and to the world.

 

If we get lost in the hate, we lose sight of the love. If we get lost in the sorrow, we can fail to see the joy. If we get lost in the times people don’t do the right thing, we can lose our appreciation of when they do (which is not to say you should be foolish, but where the heart is at). We need to see what is good in life and find the God in the little moments and the victories despite tragedy to get through life and be the difference that the world needs.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

True religion is good. 

I prefer Lucky Brand.

[Anastasia13]

I prefer Lucky Brand.

 

I'll take whatever someone else is paying for.
 

[CrossCuT]

James 1:27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.

 

True religion is good. It is the misuse and abuse of it that is bad. It is the affect of sin in humanity that soils it. It is a fallen world and we are a fallen people, but a religion cannot be judged simply on the basis of those who misuse it, who act on their own, deceived or deceiving others in the deeds.  All religions have people that do this. Islamic radicals kill with terrorism attacks, Catholics had the crusades and (not to say it is equal to extra killing of that) had sex scandals, Jews attacked other people to obtain the original Promised Land, Hindus attack Christians in India, life is full of "religious" people doing the wrong thing, both in history and in the present. We can't hate a religion as a whole based on those people. If you hate everything about Islam, then you hate the charity that is one of their five pillars, and that charity is laudable in Christianity as well.

 

Even where there is misuse, abuse, and deception, there can be, and many times are, glimpses of truth. As Christians, we simply see that truth more clearly, though yet imperfectly. (1 Cor. 13:12). Where there is truth, we should love that truth, for it is the revelation of the divine reality that transcends this passing world. It is that reality that there are different glimpses of that reveal the God of love, a love so profound that He would send us a savior. It is a glimpse toward the salvation that overcomes the world. (1 John 5) I would venture to guess that it is the deception and the wrong choices of those who refuse or turn from what is of God rather that you hate. We can all hate that. It is a tragedy to their souls and to the world.

 

If we get lost in the hate, we lose sight of the love. If we get lost in the sorrow, we can fail to see the joy. If we get lost in the times people don’t do the right thing, we can lose our appreciation of when they do (which is not to say you should be foolish, but where the heart is at). We need to see what is good in life and find the God in the little moments and the victories despite tragedy to get through life and be the difference that the world needs.

tldr

[Anastasia13]

tldr

 

Then just read the first part or two. It is probably written in a matter of decreasing importance, though with regard to hating Islam, I am probably the only or one of the only people whose extended family was killed as a result of an Islamic regime that sought to kill or convert all of my family's people, and thus I think I have a worthwhile perspective.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Light and Truth

[StMichael]

Very tired of this. Islam has no defense and cannot be defended. There is not a day that doesn't go by that these barbarians are not killing someone. Be it a Jew, Christians or each other. [mod]MIKolbe-Negative Criticism of other religions[/mod]

 

In the past, I knew nothing about this "faith" and each was treated as a local crime or just a few crazies. It is not the case whatsoever. From the Achille Lauro where a disable elderly man was shot in his wheelchair and then dumped over the side to this Boston bombing.

 

In the US Christianity would have been outlawed for every incident that would have been done with screaming Jesus Christ as they blew them up or shot them.

 

As a native New Yorker, we have endured those 2 bombings of the World Trade Center, killing almost 3,000 in total (13 people that were close to me), killings on the Brooklyn Bridge (1994) attempted bombings (Dekalb train station - I lived 2 blocks away from enough explosives to take out the entire neighborhood of Downtown Brooklyn, thank goodness they were found out all because of a Bodega owner who overheard these (censored)) to muslims beating up jews and christians on a daily basis. I can go on.

 

The Beltway Sniper, John Allen Muhammad, another member in good standing with islam who admired Bin Laden, and who he himself was a muslim, killed over 10 people.

 

Then you have Nidal Hasan, who screams whatever islam nonsense as he is killing 14 people (1 was unborn) in Fort Hood.

 

These are just a few examples before Boston, but in the Europe a drawing of their "prophet" is published and they go out and murder.  Ask Theo Van Gogh about islam. 

 

Can we continue to turn a blind eye to no matter where islam exists, peace does not? And if islam is so peaceful, so welcoming, why a Christian cannot bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia? Why Christians are enslaved in Pakistan? Why they are being slain in Egypt? 

 

Islam is exactly what Pope Benedict XVI quoted, "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

[Socrates]

You are so right. That argument intrigues me because its used by both theists and atheists. In fact, we often see it used by both sides in the same debate (Example: D'Souza vs. Hitchens). With Stalin and Hitler, it seems like they just happened to be Atheist and Catholic. I don't think their intentions were actually, "I'm going to kill _______, in the name of __________."

They were just lunatics who would have done the same thing regardless of their belief systems. 

 

I find the whole atheist vs. Christian "argument" based on who killed the most people to be rather inane and pointless as to the truth of whether God exists.  However, in my experience, it invariably begins with atheists claiming moral superiority over "theists" by making the absurd and patently false accusation that "religion has been responsible for more killing than anything else in history."  

To this falsehood, Christians (including D'Souza and myself) easily counter by pointing out the inconvenient fact that atheistic Communist regimes have been responsible for more murders in a period of less than 100 years than all the world's other regimes combined.

The point of that statement is not to claim that being atheist will necessarily turn you into a Stalin or Mao, but to show the absurdity of the atheist claim that getting rid of religion would make the world a better, more peaceful place.

 

An important distinction to make is that if a Christian commits mass murder or other atrocities, he is acting in direct contradiction to the moral teachings of his professed faith, while if an atheist does so, he contradicts nothing.

 

Also, while Hitler was baptized Catholic (just as Stalin was baptized Russian Orthodox), he was in fact an apostate who abandoned his faith early in life, and became personally quite anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, and he was condemned by Pope Pius XI in the early '30s.  After seizing power, the Nazis worked to replace traditional Christianity in Germany with a bizarre Nazi "Church" which replaced the Bible with Mein Kampf.  The Nazis also brutally persecuted Catholic priests and religious in Poland and other conquered territories.

 

The whole claim that Hitler was a devout Catholic is a malicious lie, easily refuted by a brief study of history.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Socrates