Best, Complete, Factual Account Of What's Happening In Ferguson

[CrossCuT]

I keep seeing updates about how eye witnesses saw Brown go after the cop when they had their confrontation in the street....then other eye witnesses say that the cop assaulted brown after he put his hands up to surrender.

 

Its hard to tell what the story is right now. 

[KnightofChrist]

IMO, it's not even about this.  I think the reason for why FP's thread has a low number of posts is due to the lack of content in his OP.  His thread basically amounts to "Don't forget about the Christian persecution/Genocide in the Middle East" -as if any of us could forget about that.  Other than the "don't forget" message in his OP, the thread itself does nothing to promote a discussion.   IMO, the thread we're in now has more posts simply because people are going to naturally gravitate to a thread which promotes a discussion.

I'm not sure, of the three other threads that I can find which are devoted to the genocide none have gone pass page one. The longest has 16 replies. If the events were happening in the United States or in Italy I do believe there would be more discussion. There would also be more news reports and round the clock coverage, which would also increase interest in discussing it. One big reason I think people are talking more about Ferguson is because the media is reporting it around the clock. Edited August 20, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[Credo in Deum]

I keep seeing updates about how eye witnesses saw Brown go after the cop when they had their confrontation in the street....then other eye witnesses say that the cop assaulted brown after he put his hands up to surrender.

 

Its hard to tell what the story is right now. 

 

You would think the officer's squad car would have had a dashboard camera with audio to record the event. Even if you can't see video you would have at least been able to hear sounds of a struggle.   Heck anything is better than conflicting eye witness reports. 

 

 

I'm not sure, of the three other threads that I can find which devoted to the genocide none have gone pass page one. The longest has 16 replies. If the events were happening in the United States or in Italy I do believe there would be more discussion. There would also be more news reports and round the clock coverage, which would also increase interest in discussing it. One big reason I think people are talking more about Ferguson is because the media is reporting it around the clock.

:giveup: You win, good sir. 

[CrossCuT]

You would think the officer's squad car would have had a dashboard camera with audio to record the event. Even if you can't see video you would have at least been able to hear sounds of a struggle.   Heck anything is better than conflicting eye witness reports. 

 

Exactly! Thats a good point. Arent they suppose to have dash cams? Im not aware of any law that says they must but I feel like that would really eliminate the noise in these cases and help police officers make decisions in the future by evaluating past events. 

 

I read a statistic in an article a while back that somehow, dash cams magically reduce incidents like this...I wonder how? :evil:

[Credo in Deum]

Exactly! Thats a good point. Arent they suppose to have dash cams? Im not aware of any law that says they must but I feel like that would really eliminate the noise in these cases and help police officers make decisions in the future by evaluating past events. 

 

I read a statistic in an article a while back that somehow, dash cams magically reduce incidents like this...I wonder how? :evil:

 

 

Where is the video?

There is none, Ferguson's police chief said.

Thomas Jackson says his department has 18 patrol cars. This spring, the department purchased two dashboard cameras and two wearable body cameras, but the equipment hasn't been installed because the department doesn't have the money to cover that cost, he said.

A dashcam and installation runs about $3,000, he told CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/ferguson-dashcams/

 

 

Apparently there are no national guidelines for use of dashcams and other recording devices.  

[CrossCuT]

Not surprised I guess. Although maybe something like this can be some laws that state it is mandatory given the amount of abuses recently or at least the amount of lethal ambiguous cases. 

[PhuturePriest]

IMO, it's not even about this.  I think the reason for why FP's thread has a low number of posts is due to the lack of content in his OP.  His thread basically amounts to "Don't forget about the Christian persecution/Genocide in the Middle East" -as if any of us could forget about that.  Other than the "don't forget" message in his OP, the thread itself does nothing to promote a discussion.   IMO, the thread we're in now has more posts simply because people are going to naturally gravitate to a thread which promotes a discussion.

 

[CrossCuT]

wow i cant type. 

I need sleep.

[Credo in Deum]

 

Beaver dam it Donny!

[PhuturePriest]

wow i cant type. 

I need sleep.

 

You can never type. You've simply become self-aware in your sleepiness.
 

[CrossCuT]

Im pretty much sleep deprived all the time, hence the insomnia. So Id probably agree with you that I can never type. :(

[CrossCuT]

Found a surveillance video that attempts to show that Brown paid for the cigars. 

Not sure if the fact that he did or didnt pay have much weight since the cop had no notion of the incident anyways.

 

http://youtu.be/maA1FUJqhew

Edited August 20, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Vincent Vega]

 

I was there. Those were good times.

[Lil Red]

Socrates, I will respond when I have an actual computer to type a response. Not sure when that will be.

[KnightofChrist]

Jim Hoft’s Unsourced Claim That Officer Darren Wilson Had an “Orbital Blowout Fracture of the Eye Socket”
 

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43751_Jim_Hofts_Unsourced_Claim_That_Officer_Darren_Wilson_Had_an_Orbital_Blowout_Fracture_of_the_Eye_Socket#Kq4TqoIZBxfmpGfD.99

[CrossCuT]

NPR article on civil liberties and rights of the protesters in Ferguson. 

 

 

In the days since a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Mo., people have been on the streets to register their outrage.

But the police response to those protests has stoked nearly as much anger as the shooting did.

 

 

Civil liberties groups have been challenging those police actions in court, with modest success.

Anthony Rothert, the legal director for the ACLU in Missouri, is spending his time either in court or monitoring the late-night protests.

But Rothert says that's been difficult because the police have tried to prohibit recording and keep the media penned into areas outside of the action.

"Where there's a lack of trust between the community and the police, not having a record or any objective person viewing the interactions when things go badly just increases the distrust," he says.

 

Rothert has filed lawsuits to force the release of public records about the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. And the ACLU helped reach an agreement with local police to allow reporters to record the protests.

 

But every time Rothert makes headway on one issue, he says, another crops up.

Rothert says the more fundamental problem in Ferguson now is that "no one knows what the rules are. That includes people who want to protest peacefully and obey the law, and the police officers on the ground who are supposed to be enforcing the law."

 

For example, earlier this week, the ACLU and law enforcement agreed to create a free speech zone a few blocks down from the QuikTrip store in Ferguson.

After court, the civil liberties group went to an area fenced in by a tall chain-link fence, closed off with a padlock.

 

"The ACLU person who went there asked the police officer if this was the free speech zone, and the police officer had no idea what he was talking about," Rothert says.

Floyd Abrams, who has practiced First Amendment law for decades, says because the streets are public places, "presumptively, anybody has the right to be anyplace on a street that he or she may choose to be."

 

 

Edited August 20, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Lilllabettt]

 

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.” 

According to the well-placed source, Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorain Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic. However, the confrontation quickly escalated into physical violence, the source said..

“They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off – although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"

At that point, the source told FoxNews.com, the 6 foot, 4 inch, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified" that a grand jury, which began hearing evidence on Wednesday, will "make some kind of example out of him," the source said.

((((((its fox news so take it with a grain of salt.  

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/  ))))))))

 

I have to say if a 6 foot 300 lb man fractured my eye socket, walked away and then turned back to charge at me  again I could see myself shooting him more than a few times.

 

but anyway ... here we have another version of the story. which are you inclined to believe?  They are all a product of hearsay and gossip.

those of you who are assuming the cop is guilty or a racist  -- either because of his job or his color or where he lives or how many times he shot his gun --- are making bad life choices.

for all you know he could be innocent and you've just made him the vessel of our society's sins - racism, poverty etc. 

 

[Socrates]

Rule of law = the opinion of 12 people?

 

It's currently the "rule of law" to throw human beings in cages in New Jersey for possession of a means of self defense. Even when said human groveled before the rulers of another state in order to obtain their gracious (lawful, and ordered) permission to carry a means of defense. This is apparently how we avoid "savagery". It's also the "rule of law" that if a dog barks at your car, you can have various things jammed up your ass in the search for unapproved substances.

 

Indeed, only when there is a process for the authorities to penetrate our anuses based on the reactions of dogs can we avoid savagery. Oh, what chaos would we have, what violence, without the beautiful process of obtaining law from the legislators.

 

Just can't stay on topic, can you?

 

I never said that all laws on the books are good, or that abuses of power do not exist.  (And I'm against anti-gun laws much as you are).  But it's a huge leap of logic to go from that to claiming we'd be better off with no law or courts period.

 

None of your digression about "gun control" and drug laws has any actual relevance to the case in question (involving one man killing another), much less does it have anything to do with the point I made.

 

 

Nice bobbing and weaving, but you've still completely avoided the central issue here.

 

Try to stay focused.

 

If the entire idea that a man accused of murder should be tried by jury in a court of law is so incredibly, hilariously ridiculous and stupid, what better alternative do you advocate?

 

When a man is accused (rightly or wrongly) of murdering, raping, or robbing another person, what course of action should be taken?

 

Please help enlighten this poor simpleton.

 

 

 

Rule of law is a myth, and the idea that law is only possible when it's declared by legislators is novel.

 

 

The evidence shows that there were codes of civil law in the earliest civilizations we have knowledge of, so I wouldn't exactly call it "novel."  Rule of law is the mark of every civilized society.

 

What's hilarious is that you view the opinion of a smaller mob as not mob rule.

 

 

In a court, at least there is an orderly procedure of presenting evidence from both sides for the jury to weigh, and there are particular penalties prescribed by law for particular offences, so, at least to a certain extent, vengeance and bloodlust can be reigned in.  

(For example, a court couldn't legally sentence Wilson to be beaten to death or flayed alive, or extend punishment to innocent family members.)

 

I never said juries or courts of law are perfect or infallible, and the truth is that there will never be perfect justice on earth this side of the Final Judgment.

 

However, rule of law and trial by jury is still much, much preferable to the alternative of mob lynchings or endless blood feuds and wars of attrition.

 

 

Sorry, but the lawlessness, violence, burning and looting that's been going on in Ferguson is what anarchy looks like in real life, not some pretty peace'n'luv utopian fantasy in the pages of a book by some silly-arsed academic.

 

 

And you still don't understand what a normative position is.

 

 

[Edited by the Fascist Bastage Morality Police:  Inappropriate humor]

Edited August 21, 2014 by Socrates

[KnightofChrist]

If he had a fractured eye socket he seems to have taken it very well. In this video he appears to have no large amount of bleeding, nor does he seem to have a major black eye.

http://youtu.be/1F-ba5KwP_A

[Socrates]

Socrates, I will respond when I have an actual computer to type a response. Not sure when that will be.

 

No hurry.