If God Wished That Nobody Would Perish In Hell, Then Why Did He Create

[Credo in Deum]

When I think of the Inn talked about in the Gospel narratives, I think about hell. In the Gospels you have St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary looking for a place where Jesus, our Lord and Savior, could be delivered. When they reach the Inn they are turned away because: "there is no room in the Inn." But let's think about that response. Is there no room because there was no possibility of there being room? Or was there "no room" because those in the Inn were so selfish and self-absorbed that they would not give their room up in order to help a pregnant woman and her baby? These are the types of hearts that are in hell. The ones that said to God: there is no room in here for you. Notice also in the Gospels that St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin do not argue with the response. Instead they say nothing and are taken to a place where selflessness and humility will have to reside in our hearts in order to see the King of Kings when he is born.

The sad reality is; there is a hell because some have chosen to not have room for heaven in their hearts.

[PhuturePriest]

I heard a very interesting talk about this today in a talk by a Priest. He said many people cite apathetic people, and say they don't deserve to be in hell. But he said you don't have to have a bitter and angry attitude towards God. Rather, you can even be apathetic and say "I know what God wants, but I just don't care." He said we go to hell because we choose what we want over what God wants, and that going to heaven requires a full surrendering of the will to God, and saying "Not my will, but yours, be done."

 

If that doesn't convince you, Saint Thomas Aquinas described hell as "A door that has been locked from the inside." In other words, those in hell don't want to be in heaven. They are there, and they have zero desire to be anywhere else, even though they are completely miserable.

[Kia ora]

Wrong.

there's a reason why slave of god is something that st. paul called himself.

[Nihil Obstat]

there's a reason why slave of god is something that st. paul called himself.

Not the reason you think it is, if you are implying that being a slave to God necessitates a loss of free will.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Nihil Obstat

[Kia ora]

Being a slave to God necessitates the correct use of free will to enslave ourselves to God.

 

 

Bolded is past tense, meaning now they are slaves,

 

only makes me wonder do we lose our " free will " once in heaven.

 

 

Though being a slave to God can't really be a negative now can it ?

 

In Heaven we do not want to rebel. We choose rightly, each and every time. Free will doesn't mean being able to do anything you want, like fly. If you can't fly, that's not your free will being clipped. Free will is the power to will within the boundaries of freedom that are possible for you. You have no wings, that's your boundary.

 

In Heaven, our free will is intact, but our will chooses what is right, unlike here, where we often choose what is wrong. It could be said that it's only in Heaven that our free will is truly free will, because here our will is impaired by original sin, and so the boundaries of our freedom where our will can work is severely limited. The existence of evil doesn't indicate free will, the existence of evil means that free will is lacking. We're truly free when we choose, each and every time, what makes us free from sin. In Heaven, the boundaries of our freedom are as broad as sanctified humanity, as wide as saintly existence.

[4588686]

A decision of maximum and eternal consequence is made once under conditions of highly imperfect information. Sounds like a raw deal to me.

[Credo in Deum]

A decision of maximum and eternal consequence is made once under conditions of highly imperfect information. Sounds like a raw deal to me.

 

No one goes to hell unjustly.  In the end we are judged by our hearts and minds. Those in hell are there because despite the sufficient knowledge/grace they were given of Christ and His Church, they still denied Him.   

[4588686]

No one goes to hell unjustly.  In the end we are judged by our hearts and minds. Those in hell are there because despite the sufficient knowledge/grace they were given of Christ and His Church, they still denied Him.   

 

 

Yeah.  I understand the theological claim.  It just doesn't really bear the weight of critical probing.  

[Credo in Deum]

Hasan, do you have an example you could share?

[4588686]

Sure.  You have eternal, unalterable torture in punishment for decisions made within a finite timeframe under conditions of imperfect information.  Sounds like a racket to me.

[Credo in Deum]

Could you explain what you believe to be "imperfect information"?

[Kia ora]

A decision of maximum and eternal consequence is made once under conditions of highly imperfect information. Sounds like a raw deal to me.

 

Personally, and I'm not Catholic so I'm not speaking about Catholic teaching, salvation comes from grace. Faith is a grace. And you are saved by faith.

 

Not by your score on the 'How much do you know about Jesus' quiz.

[MIKolbe]

Sure.  You have eternal, unalterable torture in punishment for decisions made within a finite timeframe under conditions of imperfect information.  Sounds like a racket to me.

 

aren't all decisions within a finite timeframe?  Not sure what that has to do with your argument? 

 

or are you getting all Matrix Revolutions on me?

[BarbTherese]

I don't think we can state who is or who is not in Hell in any way.  God in His Love and Mercy might really surprise us.  Decisions are made in time and with fallible knowledge or information and we are all coming from somewhere and affected by past experiences.  How much, I think that only God can and does judge and know infallibly and from our conception to our death -  and God alone is our Judge.  We are told not to judge and to my mind simply because it is impossible for us to do so with infallible justice. ("1] Judge not, that you may not be judged, [2] For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew Ch7)
 

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Some quick thoughts: like many people said, Hell exists because God wants us to choose to love Him. God won't force anyone to follow Him and so when people choose a life of sin, they have chosen Hell. God doesn't wish for anyone to go there because He wants everyone to have a relationship with him. Still, no choice = no love and so Hell is necessary.

We can see God's mercy in that He gives people many opportunities to come to know Him and go to Heaven. Some examples of this would be the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance.

Is this theologically correct?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Poorly Catechized Convert