If God Wished That Nobody Would Perish In Hell, Then Why Did He Create

[Guest]

I think you're wrong. Even science points towards a Creator.

[xSilverPhinx]

How so?

[Guest]

Laws of nature cosmological constant consciousness

[xSilverPhinx]

Science is essentially naturalistic, it has no say in the supernatural, if it exists. That is why when people say that science disproves gods they are wrong. With this in mind, I don't see how those directly point to there being a creator because the supernatural cannot as far as I know, be tested or measured with materialistic means. It's an extrapolation that I don't think is valid. 

[Guest]

They are set so precise it couldn't be by random luck. It's impossible. Perhaps there are trillions and trillions of other universes and the laws HAD to be this way in one universe and this was the one. But I'm a betting man and I'll bet God fine tuned these laws and cosmological constant so life could evolve. And then you add in all the spiritual experiences of billions of people and consciousness and it seems like it's very probable God is real.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guest

[Not A Real Name]

God could just erase people who don't make it to Heaven. No need for them to be tortured for eternity (whatever eternity is since I can't comprehend it) I've been reading lately how much the Catholic Church is against torture well it seems crazy then how torture for eternity is ok. Just not against terrorist who want to murder us. But God is God and I'm not. He can do as He pleases. If I do end up in hell I hope God just erases me though. I'm not a good guy compared to His standards but I don't deserve to be tortured for eternity (whatever eternity is) either. Because as I keep hearing over and over torture is never acceptable.

 

  Let me ask you something Josh.   If a person chooses to go down into a deep and dark cave and then comes out and looks at the sun and is blinded by the light, causing them extreme pain, is the sun therefore guilty of torturing them? Did the sun force them to go down and live in place that would change their nature to such a degree as to make them sensitive the the beautiful light of the sun?

[Guest]

Let me ask you something Josh. If a person chooses to go down into a deep and dark cave and then comes out and looks at the sun and is blinded by the light, causing them extreme pain, is the sun therefore guilty of torturing them? Did the sun force them to go down and live in place that would change their nature to such a degree as to make them sensitive the the beautiful light of the sun?

This is a different concept of hell from the one I've heard from the Bible and the Church. With the teachings of mortal sin I could be faithful my whole life (I can't even be faithful for a day but let's pretend) but decide I just don't feel like going to Mass today when it's a obligation. No good reason just feel like being lazy. That night I die in my sleep. I now according to the Church go to hell and endure torture for eternity. And God doesn't inflict this torture on me but I inflict it on myself. Forever and ever and ever. Im gritting my teeth in pain and the pain never stops. So I think it's reasonable to ask God to just erase me at this point. Because torture is wrong. I've also almost became protestant a couple times because of the whole mortal sin thing and how quick it implies we can be separated from God for trivial things. But the Holy Spirit has kept me Catholic and I do see the truth in the teaching. And His grace is over flowing so one does really have to choose hell in my opinion. But if hell really is physical painful torture then I think erasing that person is better. Because torture is always evil says the Church. But again God is God and I'm not. So He will do as he chooses. Edited December 31, 2014 by Guest

[Not A Real Name]

This is a different concept of hell from the one I've heard from the Bible and the Church. 

 

It is neither a different concept nor a contrary one to that which the Bible and the Church teaches

 

 

With the teachings of mortal sin I could be faithful my whole life (I can't even be faithful for a day but let's pretend) but decide I just don't feel like going to Mass today when it's a obligation. No good reason just feel like being lazy. That night I die in my sleep. I now according to the Church go to hell and endure torture for eternity. And God doesn't inflict this torture on me but I inflict it on myself. Forever and ever and ever. Im gritting my teeth in pain and the pain never stops. So I think it's reasonable to ask God to just erase me at this point. Because torture is wrong.

 

As you have pointed out you have no other person but yourself to blame for the pain you endure in hell.  It is by your own voluntary choice that you are experiencing it.  Furthermore the very fact that you would rather not exist than suffer the consequence of Hell, demonstrates the need for Hell, since non-existence would not be a consequence which would deter you from committing sins against God and your fellow man.  

 

 

 

I've also almost became protestant a couple times because of the whole mortal sin thing and how quick it implies we can be separated from God for trivial things. But the Holy Spirit has kept me Catholic and I do see the truth in the teaching. And His grace is over flowing so one does really have to choose hell in my opinion. But if hell really is physical painful torture then I think erasing that person is better. Because torture is always evil says the Church. But again God is God and I'm not. So He will do as he chooses.

 

Maybe you should pray to the Holy Spirit for an understanding regarding the gravity of sin?  Maybe then you will not see the rejection of the most perfect Love and Good as a trivial thing?

[Guest]

So you think it's 100 percent ok that a person would endure physical torture for eternity because they were lazy and didn't go to Mass then died in their sleep that night ? You don't find that at all trivial ?

[xSilverPhinx]

They are set so precise it couldn't be by random luck. It's impossible. Perhaps there are trillions and trillions of other universes and the laws HAD to be this way in one universe and this was the one. But I'm a betting man and I'll bet God fine tuned these laws and cosmological constant so life could evolve. And then you add in all the spiritual experiences of billions of people and consciousness and it seems like it's very probable God is real.

 

Perhaps, but I don't know. I like not knowing, it makes it all much more interesting.  :cool:

[Guest]

I guess. Although God is waiting to reveal himself to you and have a personal relationship with you. One where you can even get upset and scream at him like I did yesterday.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guest

[Sirklawd]

So you think it's 100 percent ok that a person would endure physical torture for eternity because they were lazy and didn't go to Mass then died in their sleep that night ? You don't find that at all trivial ?

 

Remember Jesus himself was the one that compared hell to the ever-burning trash dump of Gehenna. He used that image to make it really really clear how bad hell is. Hell is a reality for sure, but no where does it say that God takes pleasure in sending people there.  

 

In your example about skipping Mass you attempt to weigh a seemingly "small" sin against a large punishment of eternal damnation to show that it's not fair. This is what happens when understand the faith merely from a legalistic point of view. The answer to your question "why would God do that?" is another question "why did you skip Mass?",

 

It sounds cheesy but our faith in God is more than following a set of rules. It's a relationship. When you only look at the rules all you see is a skeleton. You've stripped away the meat, the person of God, the intentions and the heart. The rules only make real sense when you incorporate everything else with it.

 

If I look at my marriage as just a list of rules it looks pretty stupid. For example, Rule 1: I have to kiss and hug and have sex with my wife. How many times? Is 3 enough? Rule 2: I have to talk to her. How much? What about? Is there a test?

 

Ridiculous. It doesn't make sense.

 

Looking at the Catholic faith the same way makes just as much sense. Unfortunately, the Church has done a bad job at only focusing on the rules. Personally, I think protestant/evangelical churches are popular because they get the other side - the love/relationship side. But it's not one or the other. It's both. You need to understand why you do things, and you need the passion to do them beyond merely avoiding hell.

[xSilverPhinx]

I guess. Although God is waiting to reveal himself to you and have a personal relationship with you. One where you can even get upset and scream at him like I did yesterday.

 

 

Sounds...great. 

 

What happened, if you don't mind my asking? I'd like to gain some more insight into what people call a personal relationship with their gods. 

[Not A Real Name]

So you think it's 100 percent ok that a person would endure physical torture for eternity because they were lazy and didn't go to Mass then died in their sleep that night ? You don't find that at all trivial ?

 

No, I do not find it trivial.   The Mass is Calvary Represented.  It is not some trivial thing. It IS the Sacrifice on the Cross. It is Jesus, my God and savior, who came down from Heaven and assumed a human nature and all of my sins in order to pay my debt.  Jesus who willing laid down His life for me so that I may spend an eternity with Him, happy in Heaven.  The Mass is the greatest gift and thing we can ever have and attend in this life.  Even the saint's have said it would be easier for the world to exist without the sun than it would be for it to exist without the Mass.  Maybe you should ask yourself why you look at missing Mass as being trivial. 

[Guest]

I look at someone being tortured eternally for missing Mass to be trivial. Not that I believe if that hypothetical situation actually happened the person would end up in hell. Although I dont neglect the possibility and have no trouble saying if that happened I would think it's unfair and unjust.I'm allowed to have an opinion. As long as I don't exert it above God's and the Church. Or attempt to put it on the same level.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guest