AccountDeleted Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Honestly there are non-substance things that I'd also worry about the mechanic...like tiredness. It's been proven time and time again that lack of sleep is as or more dangerous than a substance. But anyway, yeah, people can not care. My feeling is that you can't legislate morality. You need to have places where social norms help makes it so people don't need to seek to abuse drugs to feel better, both thorough good mental health treatment and sense of belonging You are right. I'd also like my auto mechanic and my airplane pilot not to be suffering from a severe mental illness like depression! That poor co-pilot who crashed the German plane - not only was his life ruined, but also all those who were in the plane with him! There are a lot of things that can affect someone's performance. And hopefully if someone is responsible for the live of others, they aren't under any influences of alcohol or drugs or suffering from any disorder that could affect their performance. But that really has nothing to do with a discussion about legality and morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I haven't drank in 18 months Josh, I have tremendous respect for your accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpink Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 You are right. I'd also like my auto mechanic and my airplane pilot not to be suffering from a severe mental illness like depression! That poor co-pilot who crashed the German plane - not only was his life ruined, but also all those who were in the plane with him! There are a lot of things that can affect someone's performance. And hopefully if someone is responsible for the live of others, they aren't under any influences of alcohol or drugs or suffering from any disorder that could affect their performance. But that really has nothing to do with a discussion about legality and morality. It kinda does though. Say someone crashes their car because of tiredness. The officer does a cognitive "sobriety test" and they fail, however upon doing the blood and blow test they pass. No drugs or alcohol. I think that this person who drove congnativly impaired (tired) should be treated with the same consequences, yet they are not. NPR just did a bit on senior drivers and how dangerous they are. Yet even if they disclose trouble driving to say, their estate lawyer or doctor, they doctor is bound by HIPPA to not say. I do PT. There are some of my clients who should NOT be driving. Yet I can do nothing about it. Same with mental illness. We are so afraid of stupid laws that we are basically bound and gagged. Driving while tired, elderly, injured or with mental illness probably attributes to most of the injuries that are not related to drugs/alcohol. None of those things....tiredness, being old, being injured or having a mental illness are sinful....but they can be just as (or in the airline's case) more deadly than a pot smoking or drunk captain. Mostly because it's easy to recognize a drunk, it's not easy to recognize someone who's suicidal or even someone who has a physical injury that limits range of motion. It's a scary world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It kinda does though. Say someone crashes their car because of tiredness. The officer does a cognitive "sobriety test" and they fail, however upon doing the blood and blow test they pass. No drugs or alcohol. I think that this person who drove congnativly impaired (tired) should be treated with the same consequences, yet they are not. NPR just did a bit on senior drivers and how dangerous they are. Yet even if they disclose trouble driving to say, their estate lawyer or doctor, they doctor is bound by HIPPA to not say. I do PT. There are some of my clients who should NOT be driving. Yet I can do nothing about it. Same with mental illness. We are so afraid of stupid laws that we are basically bound and gagged. Driving while tired, elderly, injured or with mental illness probably attributes to most of the injuries that are not related to drugs/alcohol. None of those things....tiredness, being old, being injured or having a mental illness are sinful....but they can be just as (or in the airline's case) more deadly than a pot smoking or drunk captain. Mostly because it's easy to recognize a drunk, it's not easy to recognize someone who's suicidal or even someone who has a physical injury that limits range of motion. It's a scary world. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that my post really had nothing to do with legality and morality. I was simply stating that there are factors other than drugs that can impair function. But even if we go back to legality and morality, it becomes a slippery slope. There are many things that are legal but not necessarily moral, and many things that have been illegal but not necessarily immoral. I don't think that legality can be an automatic indicator of morality. If we go back to the old chestnut of the Nazis, they made it illegal for Jews to own businesses and many other things. The law itself was immoral but it was the law so Jews could be dispossessed of their houses, businesses, belongings etc quite legally - but immorally. Anyway, it seems that opinions on things like the morality of alcohol, marijuana etc are very personal, and probably not going to be altered through discussion. Personally, although I don't use marijuana, I think that making it legal, or at the least, decriminalizing it is a step forward - like the end of prohibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Anyway, it seems that opinions on things like the morality of alcohol, marijuana etc are very personal, and probably not going to be altered through discussion. Personally, although I don't use marijuana, I think that making it legal, or at the least, decriminalizing it is a step forward - like the end of prohibition. do you personal refrain from recreational use of marijuana because it's illegal or because of morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 do you personal refrain from recreational use of marijuana because it's illegal or because of morality? Neither reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Fear of incarceration is not much of a deterrent now a days, the law is not the reason that I don't use or abuse marijuana. i have enought trouble just keeping a sound state of mind, as is. Then again, the laws (or punishment) of the government are not the reason that Im a law abiding citizen, it's just coincidental I feel that it is a sin to smoke marijuana or to use any drugs purely for sport or exparimention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 i have enought trouble just keeping a sound state of mind, as is. Some marijuana might help with that. One of its biggest assets is that it is able to reduce anxiety and ease tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 L2A, what would you say about the morality of the old cocaine-infused wines? In such wines, the ethanol content extracts an amount of cocaine from the coca leaves, meaning cocaine is indeed an active ingredient. The one brand I have read about would contain 6-7.2 mg per oz. of wine. Would you say that such wines are inherently immoral to consume, or only immoral because of their current illegality where once they were not controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 coca-cola originally had cocaine in it Pemberton called for five ounces of coca leaf per gallon of syrup, a significant dose; in 1891, Candler claimed his formula (altered extensively from Pemberton's original) contained only a tenth of this amount. Coca-Cola once contained an estimated nine milligrams of cocaine per glass. In 1903, it was removed. (via Wikipedia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 coca-cola originally had cocaine in it Yes. Coca in drinks was quite trendy in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Some marijuana might help with that. One of its biggest assets is that it is able to reduce anxiety and ease tension. no thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) L2A, what would you say about the morality of the old cocaine-infused wines? In such wines, the ethanol content extracts an amount of cocaine from the coca leaves, meaning cocaine is indeed an active ingredient. The one brand I have read about would contain 6-7.2 mg per oz. of wine. Would you say that such wines are inherently immoral to consume, or only immoral because of their current illegality where once they were not controlled. Yes, that would be a sin. ( and I have sinned) Bless me father for I have sinned Edited April 9, 2015 by little2add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Yes. Coca in drinks was quite trendy in those days. maybe Coca-cola will start selling marijuana drinks where it's legal (◕‿◕✿) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Yes, that would be a sin. ( and I have sinned) Bless me father for I have sinned Pope St. Pius X and Pope Leo XIII were both rather fond of Vin Mariani. Do you think they sinned by drinking it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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