AccountDeleted Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 In fact, that very same argument has been made to justify and legalize: alcohol, tobacco, abortion, gambling, and adultery. whats next? Well, yes, that argument has been used - not to justify but certainly to make certain things legal . I think you have to examine each one of these issues separately however because they each have different victims and create different problems in society when they are either legalized or made illegal. As Winnie and ArchCat have both said, prohibition didn't work, and actually caused more victims and more criminal activity. So do you really think that alcohol should be made illegal again for adults and anybody who uses it should be put in jail? Aren't our prisons full to overflowing already and would you really think that a glass of wine or even a shot of whiskey deserves that kind of punishment? Does the priest go to jail for consecrating the wine and drinking it, or offering it to others? Is he a dealer then? What about if someone has a cigarette or cigar? Or what about if someone plays a game of Black Jack? Prison for the lot of them? When you lump all of these things into the same category, that's where it gets tricky. Should we go back to stoning women for adultery? I don't really see where you are taking this argument. Abortion should be kept in a whole separate category anyway because there we are talking about the certain death of a child. With drugs or tobacco or alcohol there are potential dangers but mainly through abuse. And with adultery... well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. It can get a little absurd when we want to legislate anything we think is immoral because even Catholics don't always agree on what they consider immoral - and whose version of morality do we use? Catholic or Protestant or secular or Jewish or Hebrew or Muslim? Sharia law decides for everyone what is or isn't moral, so they can execute women who get raped or commit adultery, or cut off the hand of someone who steals. It's dangerous to give the law into the hands of religion... then we have the Spanish Inquisition (and nobody expects that!). Legal and moral issues do cross paths but I shudder to think what the world would be like if someone else legislated all my morals for me. Protect society, sure, but use some common sense while doing it. If I want to poison my liver with a glass of wine or waste my money at a casino, I don't think I should go to jail for doing it. And if someone else wants to ruin their lungs with a cigarette or to destroy their marriage by cheating on their spouse, I certainly don't see how putting them in jail is going to make things better either. As for marijuana, it's not my choice but I certainly don't see how putting someone in jail for it is going to save society. And how you can even include abortion along with these other issues really confuses me because a child is involved in that situation. No one is saying that we should make alcohol or cigarettes or gambling or marijuana available and legal for children. We are only talking about adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 yes, but I've got right on my side, so... No, you've got support of disproportionate violence on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Well, yes, that argument has been used - not to justify but certainly to make certain things legal . I think you have to examine each one of these issues separately however because they each have different victims and create different problems in society when they are either legalized or made illegal. As Winnie and ArchCat have both said, prohibition didn't work, and actually caused more victims and more criminal activity. So do you really think that alcohol should be made illegal again for adults and anybody who uses it should be put in jail? Aren't our prisons full to overflowing already and would you really think that a glass of wine or even a shot of whiskey deserves that kind of punishment? Does the priest go to jail for consecrating the wine and drinking it, or offering it to others? Is he a dealer then? What about if someone has a cigarette or cigar? Or what about if someone plays a game of Black Jack? Prison for the lot of them? When you lump all of these things into the same category, that's where it gets tricky. Should we go back to stoning women for adultery? I don't really see where you are taking this argument. Abortion should be kept in a whole separate category anyway because there we are talking about the certain death of a child. With drugs or tobacco or alcohol there are potential dangers but mainly through abuse. And with adultery... well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. It can get a little absurd when we want to legislate anything we think is immoral because even Catholics don't always agree on what they consider immoral - and whose version of morality do we use? Catholic or Protestant or secular or Jewish or Hebrew or Muslim? Sharia law decides for everyone what is or isn't moral, so they can execute women who get raped or commit adultery, or cut off the hand of someone who steals. It's dangerous to give the law into the hands of religion... then we have the Spanish Inquisition (and nobody expects that!). Legal and moral issues do cross paths but I shudder to think what the world would be like if someone else legislated all my morals for me. Protect society, sure, but use some common sense while doing it. If I want to poison my liver with a glass of wine or waste my money at a casino, I don't think I should go to jail for doing it. And if someone else wants to ruin their lungs with a cigarette or to destroy their marriage by cheating on their spouse, I certainly don't see how putting them in jail is going to make things better either. As for marijuana, it's not my choice but I certainly don't see how putting someone in jail for it is going to save society. And how you can even include abortion along with these other issues really confuses me because a child is involved in that situation. No one is saying that we should make alcohol or cigarettes or gambling or marijuana available and legal for children. We are only talking about adults. I'm not judging anyone. Sin is Sin. Leave judgment to the almighty. Nobody really cares if you want to smoke pot, that's not the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 And how you can even include abortion along with these other issues really confuses me because a child is involved in that situation. No one is saying that we should make alcohol or cigarettes or gambling or marijuana available and legal for children. We are only talking about adults. I only referenced abortion because it's legalization was justified for the same reasons all the "other" vices have been legalized. doesnt make it right, nor life (as we know it) any better and you can take that to the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 You lose the argument when you compare marijuana and killing an unborn baby as similar evils. It's ridiculous. God created marijuana and called it good. The same cannot be said of abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I am curious whether you support the prohibition of alcohol, then, @little2add. Honestly, I've never smoked a cigarette, let alone a joint, and have no desire to do so. Yet I don't see the point in criminalizing either of those. Our jails have crowding issues to begin with, for one. And, as many have said, regulation may actually help with the issue of abuse. At the very least, I do think it should be legalized for medicinal use, since it does help with some conditions when other things may not help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm not judging anyone. Sin is Sin. Leave judgment to the almighty. Nobody really cares if you want to smoke pot, that's not the point Of course you are judging. You are stating that smoking marijuana is a sin, even though the whole point of this thread is to debate whether or not this is true. You have made your decision so everyone who disagrees with you must be committing a sin, and you consign them to the almighty, as if already found wanting and judged (by you). You use the second person ('you') in addressing a response to my post, thereby implying that I am smoking pot, despite the fact that I have stated many times on here that I do not smoke pot, or cigarettes for that matter. You (second person, implying 'you', littl2add) seem incapable of maintaining a coherent debate. When we talk legalization (my last post), you drop that line of attack and then jump back to the morality of pot, judge it immoral and a sin, and then imply that I am doing it by stating that nobody cares if I do it. That is the point. The whole thread started out about whether pot (now that it is legal in many places) is moral or not. So let's stick to that. Your opinion is that pot is a sin, therefore you must judge it to be immoral. On what grounds do you base that assumption? Is smoking cigarettes also immoral? You implied tobacco should be illegal, so is it also immoral? On what grounds? What about alcohol? Is it immoral? Do you commit a sin every time you receive consecrated wine? No? At what point does alcohol become immoral? Did Jesus or His Mother commit a sin when they not only attended a party where wine was served but they also contrived to increase the alcohol supply when it ran out? Were they contributing to drunkenness? Did Jesus make the wine and then say to people, go and sin no more, like He did to the woman caught in adultery, or was He tacitly approving of drinking alcohol by His actions? I don't have a problem with you considering alcohol or pot immoral (or anything else for that matter) for yourself. But on what grounds do you claim that these things are immoral for everyone else? I am really curious. It's ok to see a black and white world when you are very young, but as we get older, we see that things aren't quite as absolute in every area and there is often a certain amount of discretion and thought required before making a judgment. Before you leap down my throat, yes, sin is sin, but not all things are sin all the time. Eating is not a sin, gluttony is. Relaxing is not a sin, sloth is. I think these things were discussed at the very beginning of this thread. Do you even read what others post? Or is your only concern to post over and over again that you think pot is a sin and therefore no one should disagree with you? If it is a sin for you, then of course, don't do pot! In fact, if cigarettes and alcohol and gambling are sins for you, then don't do these either - but be sure to define what gambling is or you won't be able to play church bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 "Sin is not hurtful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is hurtful" or "small sin small hurt, big sin big hurt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 "Sin is not hurtful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is hurtful" or "small sin small hurt, big sin big hurt" And yet you still fail to answer any question or refute any argument about whether or not smoking marijuana actually is a sin. You are not very good at debating, are you? No one is arguing the nature of sin, but whether or not a particular action actually is a sin. So in your eyes, since you think alcohol should be illegal and must therefore be a sin, Jesus and the BVM are both sinners for drinking wine and encouraging others to do so as well? Shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 You lose the argument when you compare marijuana and killing an unborn baby as similar evils. It's ridiculous. God created marijuana and called it good. The same cannot be said of abortion. I nearly pointed out the similarities proponents use to justify both aforementioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I nearly pointed out the similarities proponents use to justify both aforementioned Which proponents do that? Can you supply one source that says that marijuana and abortion are both justified because they are similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I am curious whether you support the prohibition of alcohol, then, @little2add. Honestly, I've never smoked a cigarette, let alone a joint, and have no desire to do so. Yet I don't see the point in criminalizing either of those. Our jails have crowding issues to begin with, for one. And, as many have said, regulation may actually help with the issue of abuse. At the very least, I do think it should be legalized for medicinal use, since it does help with some conditions when other things may not help as well. The current laws are fine, for instance "drunk driving" needs to be outlawed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The current laws are fine, for instance "drunk driving" needs to be outlawed I thought drunk driving was already outlawed? I mean it's against the law to drive drunk already, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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