Catholic Preaching

[truthfinder]

The only time I've ever really heard an diocescan priest preach on topics, was when he had stressed about a million times during his homily that it was allowed by Vatican II.  And it was on something like confession -really vital stuff that people needed to hear about.  

For my (almost) favourite EF homily: an entire sermon (half an hour, and he could have gone on without being the least bit boring) on how to use your EF handmissal.  It wasn't just an instruction; it gave really good information on the development of Catholic liturgical law, why the rubrics are important, why they can't be changed, and had linked with the priest's very biblical four part series on the Church as the embodiment of the the gates of Heaven and why 'liturgical abuse kills.'

[beatitude]

In my experience a lot of priests are loathe to preach about "topics". And indeed, a (very) recent publication from the CDWDS seemed to confirm priests in this aversion by stressing that homilies should connect to the day's biblical readings. But I agree with you all that important Church teachings should be given through homilies, especially when homilies may be the only place people have opportunity to hear those teachings.

But how do you convince priests to preach on "topics" when the pressure now is to keep things strictly tied to Scripture?

​I like Scripture-centred homilies. Jesus had to "open the scriptures" to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and I think some guidance and exegesis are even more necessary for those Catholics who don't study the Bible or do lectio divina in their own time. But there is also no reason why such homilies can't be linked to to important topics. For instance, last Sunday I attended Mass at a strange church and the priest linked the defilement of the Temple to the ways in which we defile and clutter up our own souls. He spoke about how to drive out bad influences and sinful habits, mentioning confession, penance, and the value of Lent as a season in teaching us to put God first. He wasn't fluent in English so he kept his sermon short and used very simple language, but somehow this made it more powerful - it was one of the clearest things I've heard in a while.

[dUSt]

In my experience a lot of priests are loathe to preach about "topics". And indeed, a (very) recent publication from the CDWDS seemed to confirm priests in this aversion by stressing that homilies should connect to the day's biblical readings. But I agree with you all that important Church teachings should be given through homilies, especially when homilies may be the only place people have opportunity to hear those teachings.

But how do you convince priests to preach on "topics" when the pressure now is to keep things strictly tied to Scripture?

​I think I could find a way to connect the Eucharist to the readings of the day, every day of the year.

But, it doesn't have to be during the homily. What my parish priest will often do, is when the mass ends, he will say, "Oh, by the way, I noticed a lot of people did not genuflect before entering their pew today. It is important because..."

Edited March 10, 2015 by dUSt

[Norseman82]

Two things that come into play:  

1)  Some homilists may balk at preaching about certain topics if there are young children present.  

 

2)  Sometimes a homilist's personal feelings may color his outlook or judgment.  This is something to especially watch out for with the increase of the number of priests who have had parents or other close family members who are divorced.

[truthfinder]

In response to Norseman's scenarios (which do indeed come into play, but in reality shouldn't):

1.) There are ways to preach on uncomfortable topics that don't scandalize (and in this case, scandalize does not equal bristling some feathers of those who think the Church should change).  Usually just referring to sins against "the sixth and ninth commandments" is sufficient, or else quick mentions of "fornication, contraception" without any needless and gory details.  If Father really thinks it is necessary, he should arrange a catechism lesson for adults with childcare provided.  

2.) While this certainly is the case, it doesn't mean priests shouldn't be faithful.  One of my parish priest's grew up with a single parent, and was certainly compassionate to those in similar circumstances - but that doesn't mean he didn't keep the teaching of the Church; rather, he was one of Her staunchest defenders in terms of morality.  

[Gabriela]

Okay, new question: If you could tell your (most-)regular preacher one piece of constructive criticism about his homilies, what would it be?

[PhuturePriest]

My priest is pretty solid on homilies, so I wouldn't critique anything he says. He regularly preaches on abortion, contraception, turning away from sin and becoming as holy as possible, etc., and all in a very exciting and passionate way. I would critique other things he does, such as not using the formal prayer of absolution in confession. They are valid, as he uses the Trinity, but it's a simple "I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.", which is illicit. I haven't had the guts to bring it to his attention, however.

[Nihil Obstat]

Okay, new question: If you could tell your (most-)regular preacher one piece of constructive criticism about his homilies, what would it be?

​Any advice my priests would take from me would probably make their homilies worse.  I am more concerned that I get what I need from them rather than what I want.

[Credo in Deum]

*Must. Hold. Back. The. Temptation. To. Make. A. Rolling Stones. Joke.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Temptation gone.  

God is good.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Credo in Deum

[Era Might]

I was reading Exodus and liked the fact that Moses was a poor speaker, Aaron had to do the speaking for him. I don't know if that's relevant here, but it's an interesting detail.

[Gabriela]

*Must. Hold. Back. The. Temptation. To. Make. A. Rolling Stones. Joke.*

?

[Gabriela]

​Any advice my priests would take from me would probably make their homilies worse.  I am more concerned that I get what I need from them rather than what I want.

​Do you get what you need?

[Nihil Obstat]

​Do you get what you need?

At my current parish, yes. We are blessed with excellent priests.

[The Historian]

Billy Bob is sitting at home one day, and suddenly he finds himself dropped into a lake, newspaper, coffee and all.  Billy Bob can't swim.  The life guard comes along in a boat, and brings along a flotation device.  He then proceeds to shout down to Billy Bob from the boat the proper swimming technique which will allow him to reach the shore.  He even points out a neat backstroke technique.

Now, if I was Billy Bob, I'd just want the floatation device thrown to me.

The primary purpose of a priest is to administer the Sacraments.  It is solely by the grace conferred by the holy Sacraments that we can save our souls.  There is, of course, a purpose to preaching.  It is a good thing, and we could do with a fair few better preachers.  But we're not "losing" to Protestantism because they have amesome preachers.  We're not "losing" to modern society because they present their hedonistic materialism in a much flashier manner.

We're losing out because the Sacraments are not frequented and grace is not received.  And this is, ultimately, down to the rather sloppy manner in which the sacraments are conferred and administered.  Restore dignity to the Sacraments, and grace will again abound amongst the faithful.

[truthfinder]

The Historian - welcome! I agree with what you are saying, but preaching is important.  Numerous councils throughout the last century have reiterated this: Lateran, Trent, Vatican II.  Preaching is important so that the people can more fruitfully access the graces they are being offered through the Sacraments.

Let's see what Vatican II has to say about preaching: from Sacrosanctum Concilium 35.2 "Because the sermon is part of the liturgical service, the best place for it is to be indicated even in the rubrics, as far as the nature of the rite will allow; the ministry of preaching is to be fulfilled with exactitude and fidelity. The sermon, moreover, should draw its content mainly from scriptural and liturgical sources, and its character should be that of a proclamation of God's wonderful works in the history of salvation, the mystery of Christ, ever made present and active within us, especially in the celebration of the liturgy."

Carrying on one of my many torches that I have moaned about here and elsewhere - the content is drawn "mainly from scriptural and liturgical sources" - this does not mean stick only to the text of the day.  Also by this standard, the FSSP priests I have heard preach more often than not are more in line with Vatican II than many others (although this is thankfully starting to slowly improve).  One of my parish priest's today, not FSSP btw, directly linked the receiving Communion unworthily with Judas's kiss in the Garden - of all the themes he could have chosen today, that's the one. A beautiful and yet necessary wake-up call for the congregation (namely myself).

 

I will add that in my own research, some of the medieval preachings that have been recorded would certainly get a priest put on leave for their earthy (and sometimes vulgar) comparisons and imagery.  It made the point very clearly about the effects of sin but most certainly on the level of the peasants.    

[Nunsense]

Billy Bob is sitting at home one day, and suddenly he finds himself dropped into a lake, newspaper, coffee and all.  Billy Bob can't swim.  The life guard comes along in a boat, and brings along a flotation device.  He then proceeds to shout down to Billy Bob from the boat the proper swimming technique which will allow him to reach the shore.  He even points out a neat backstroke technique.

Now, if I was Billy Bob, I'd just want the floatation device thrown to me.

The primary purpose of a priest is to administer the Sacraments.  It is solely by the grace conferred by the holy Sacraments that we can save our souls.  There is, of course, a purpose to preaching.  It is a good thing, and we could do with a fair few better preachers.  But we're not "losing" to Protestantism because they have amesome preachers.  We're not "losing" to modern society because they present their hedonistic materialism in a much flashier manner.

We're losing out because the Sacraments are not frequented and grace is not received.  And this is, ultimately, down to the rather sloppy manner in which the sacraments are conferred and administered.  Restore dignity to the Sacraments, and grace will again abound amongst the faithful.

​Actually, speaking as a convert. I don't think the Sacraments mean as much to a non-Catholic as they do to a Catholic, simply because the understanding isn't there yet.

The thing that got me into the Church, and later an appreciation of the Sacraments, was example. I had the example of some very holy women to inspire me to want to be more like them and to ask them how. Then they told me about becoming a Catholic, and then I had instruction and only after I was baptized and actually received the Sacraments, did I start to become aware how important they were to me.

I think sometimes Catholics really have no idea what evangelization is. They think that because they understand the Sacraments that everyone will or should. Conversion is often a slow process, taking many steps and perhaps even missteps along the way. But nothing preaches the Gospel better than someone who is living the Gospel - a living example of Christ's love for us all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. He has many sheep not of this fold and He wants to bring us all together, but that takes time and love and example.

 

[Nunsense]

That last post was a specific response but back to the OP about homilies,

I really like dUSt's post. I don't mind that not every priest is a great speaker, but it would be nice if they could have the humility to recognize when this is so, and make their homilies relevant and shorter. The homily shouldn't be a penance IMO and often it feels like it!

 

[truthfinder]

That last post was a specific response but back to the OP about homilies,

I really like dUSt's post. I don't mind that not every priest is a great speaker, but it would be nice if they could have the humility to recognize when this is so, and make their homilies relevant and shorter. The homily shouldn't be a penance IMO and often it feels like it!

 

​Maybe part of the problem is that no one will tell them they're homilies are poor.  Maybe each priest should select an unbiased individual who will tell them...

Granted, there have been priests who weren't the greatest homilists, but every once and awhile they'd have a great homily.  It almost made you appreciate it that much more because you knew they really tried.  

Homilies being penance - hasn't happened in a while.  The last homily I heard at my former parish was 30 minutes (I timed; priest claimed his homilies were always 15 minutes), and it was too short.  Most other priests, if their homilies were that long, I'd probably glare/glaze over, or take a bathroom break.

[Credo in Deum]

I'm incredibly greaful for our parish priest.  He may not be the most eloquent orator but you can see his love for God and this makes his sermons truly inspiring.  We've also had some great visiting priests.  One started his sermon on the dogma of Hell with a deep loud voice saying "COME DOWN TO HELL!"  Whoo, you could here a pin drop in the church. Everyone's eyes were glued to the pulpit.  A truly amazing sermon.  I'm happy to say that on Sundays the sermons are the icing on an already perfect spiritual cake which is the beautifuly celebrated EF Mass.  God bless the FSSP. 

 

[The Historian]

 

 

​

The Historian - welcome! I agree with what you are saying, but preaching is important.  Numerous councils throughout the last century have reiterated this: Lateran, Trent, Vatican II.  Preaching is important so that the people can more fruitfully access the graces they are being offered through the Sacraments.

Let's see what Vatican II has to say about preaching: from Sacrosanctum Concilium 35.2 "Because the sermon is part of the liturgical service, the best place for it is to be indicated even in the rubrics, as far as the nature of the rite will allow; the ministry of preaching is to be fulfilled with exactitude and fidelity. The sermon, moreover, should draw its content mainly from scriptural and liturgical sources, and its character should be that of a proclamation of God's wonderful works in the history of salvation, the mystery of Christ, ever made present and active within us, especially in the celebration of the liturgy."

Carrying on one of my many torches that I have moaned about here and elsewhere - the content is drawn "mainly from scriptural and liturgical sources" - this does not mean stick only to the text of the day.  Also by this standard, the FSSP priests I have heard preach more often than not are more in line with Vatican II than many others (although this is thankfully starting to slowly improve).  One of my parish priest's today, not FSSP btw, directly linked the receiving Communion unworthily with Judas's kiss in the Garden - of all the themes he could have chosen today, that's the one. A beautiful and yet necessary wake-up call for the congregation (namely myself).

 

I will add that in my own research, some of the medieval preachings that have been recorded would certainly get a priest put on leave for their earthy (and sometimes vulgar) comparisons and imagery.  It made the point very clearly about the effects of sin but most certainly on the level of the peasants.    

​Thank you for the welcome, but I'm not new, I'm the same old historian from before!

My above post probably came across as a little flippant, which I didn't intend.  I do recognise the importance of preaching; Christ gave the Church the Great Commission which necessarily involves preaching.  I just don't feel that in the current situation facing the Church we should be overly worrying about the state of Catholic preaching in light of the massive challenges facing the liturgical and sacramental life of the Church.  I'm also one of those people that believes the homily during Mass needs to be suppressed!