Charleston Shooting Suspect (Derailed: Confederate Flag Debate)

[Ice_nine]

 

Peace from a purely secular view point of view did in fact dehumanize and devalue the unborn. I am have forgotten to do so but I thought I did ask everyone what they thought was the biggest threat if not abortion.

And yes I've been hearing Peace out, I know later he walked back that purely secular point of view. But the fact remains he used that point of view to down play the threat and in doing so devalued and dehumanized the unborn.

Why are you obsessing over the pigmentation of my skin? Why do you find it acceptable to mock me due to the pigmentation of my skin?

It was evident to me that he was paraphrasing the secular rationale of why abortion has become tolerable, I didn't see it as an endorsement of those views. Perhaps I am wrong but that is my reading. In other posts (perhaps in other threads) I know he (you are a man right?) talked about how we use euphemisms to mask the horror of abortion. I took that he meant he thinks abortion is egregious, so that's how I came to that conclusion.

Maybe you did ask. I don't remember.

I would say that abortion of black unborn children is one of the vilest symptoms of what afflicts black people, which is mainly social engineering and white supremacy i.e. racism/classism.

Whiteness is more than skin pigmentation.

[Peace]

Knight:

Yes. You are right. That was a low blow. Please accept my apologies for that one. But just to let you know - many African Americans will be annoyed when a white person attempts to tell us what our problems are. I think the same would largely be true for any ethnic group.

As for whether I dehumanized or devalued human life - from a purely secular point of view there is no value to human life. Without God there is no value to anything. So yes, in that sense you would be correct.

But I think I have also made it abundantly clear that I do not advocate a secular approach to the question of abortion.

I approached the question from a secular standpoint and a moral standpoint, both for the sake of argument, because it was not clear whether your assertion was based on secular or moral reasoning.

Peace

[KnightofChrist]

 

I've been participating thread in the hopes that we would all arrive at some kind mutual understanding. I will say this: for my part, I am willing to except that you, Knight, have a personal appreciation of the Confederate flag and in no way associate it with racism. However, some people, when they see the flag, associate it with racism. Now, if my friend, for some reason objected to the flag because he associated it with racism, then I would not wear a T-shirt with the flag when my friend came to visit. Likewise, if I had a friend who objected to the American flag, and could not abide seeing it because she associated it with hatred, I would not have public displays of it when she came to visit. This is very simple for me… I think it all boils down to Christian charity. All I am saying is do not give scandal to someone by doing something that he or she finds scandalous. Let's say that I lived with a female friend and we both had separate rooms and did nothing. Many neighbors who see us both going into the house will perceive that we are indeed doing something… so, for the sake of peoples perception, I will not live with my female friend. Do you understand I am saying? This is the heart of my argument/position.

Thank you for understanding, and I understand your point of view. What I do not understand is those that do have hold the belief that it's racist will use a certain logic and thought process for the Confederate flag and Confederate symbols but throw out that same logic and thought process for the American flag and symbols. And many seem to make the similar "heritage not hate" style type of appeals in favor of American symbols as Southerners do for the Confederate flag. It is this contradiction that I find most troubling.

 I'm not exactly sure who is downplaying the threat of abortion to the African-American community… I don't think it's quite relevant to this thread. It reminds me of the woman at the talk by the priest from Rwanda… at one point she interrupted his talk about the horrors of the genocide by saying, “what about all those people who died in the Holocaust!? How dare you ignore them."

I find it relative because the national discussion over the Confederate flag is a diversion to far greater issues. I wish to divert the diversion. Because think about this, after the deaths of those nine souls America has proven it can take very serious, very real fundamental action in the face of wicked and vile mass-murder when America cares to care about mass-murder. But when thousands are murdered each day and every day, as a nation and as a society we as do nothing the crickets chirp and the tumble weeds roll. The Government, the Media, and Corporate America do nothing to inform us of the dangers of this threat because often they are in full support of it. But they will all aline together against the Confederate flag and Confederate symbols. This is yet another complete and absolute contradiction that I find most troubling.

[KnightofChrist]

Knight:

Yes. You are right. That was a low blow. Please accept my apologies for that one. But just to let you know - many African Americans will be annoyed when a white person attempts to tell us what our problems are. I think the same would largely be true for any ethnic group.

As for whether I dehumanized or devalued human life - from a purely secular point of view there is no value to human life. Without God there is no value to anything. So yes, in that sense you would be correct.

But I think I have also made it abundantly clear that I do not advocate a secular approach to the question of abortion.

I approached the question from a secular standpoint and a moral standpoint, both for the sake of argument, because it was not clear whether your assertion was based on secular or moral reasoning.

Peace

Accepted. Also please then accept my apologies for not understanding your purpose in writing about the secular point of view.

Yes, I understand quite well that it can be quite difficult to speak about this issue with African-Americans. It is difficult to discuss the issue of Abortion with anyone who is not pro-life or does not understand what it means to be pro-life. But I give you my word my warning against it is not and never has been a means to make myself seem better than anyone for any reason. I do not think of myself highly, I, like Paul, think of myself as a chief of sinners. I am an unworthy and lowly creature but I trust in the Lord. I do speak rather bluntly, boldly and with passion. I do so not out of pride but because I actually care, and I care so very deeply and it saddens me so greatly, when I think of all those babies who have been robbed of life... I'm not afraid to say I weep, I weep even now. I feel the same way when unarmed African-Americans are gunned down by police or when any innocent life if lost. I hate that it happens and I do not understand why so many blindly accept the police side of the story. Today there are more and more of us that are pro-life, but even so it can feel so lonely, as if I am a ghost trying to warn others but no one listens. When those nine souls where murdered in SC I felt the same for them as I do for the children robbed of their lives. And I saw that the nation can indeed share in that sorrow and share in a similar passion to take action and do something about it. I did not feel so alone. Because the nation showed it can see such evils as evil do something to fight against those evils. But I am sorry it put the focus on the wrong threat, the actual threat is the threat of mass-murder not a flag. That's why I want the focus to be on the threat of abortion. What happened in SC was an act of mass-murder, so the nation's focus should be on mass-murder. Every moment that the nation's focus is off of that threat and is instead focused on issues that are not as grave are lives lost, every day that goes by it is thousands of lives lost, every year tens of millions. Anyway I don't know what else to say.

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Didacus]

 

[Ice_nine]

would anyone even care if a UN flag was burnt? Like who is so allegiant to the UN that they would even flinch if someone stomped all over it?

why break out the popcorn for that? Do you expect anyone to get up in arms about your little meme? idgi

[Didacus]

 

 

would anyone even care if a UN flag was burnt? Like who is so allegiant to the UN that they would even flinch if someone stomped all over it?

why break out the popcorn for that? Do you expect anyone to get up in arms about your little meme? idgi

interesting - please go on

Edited July 17, 2015 by Didacus
I wanted to edit my post

[Peace]

Didacus - you played yourself. Just pick up the pieces and move on brah. It has happened to all of us . . .

[Guest]

This was just in my news feed 

[Peace]

A Christian fight for the liberty to enslave men? OK. That makes a whole lot of sense. . .

[Didacus]

This was just in my news feed 

I never knew that. Kinda puts things in a new perspective.  

[Guest]

I think it's complete b.s. 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

 

I think it's complete b.s.

It very well may all be factual. Does not mean or imply that the Confederacy was worthy of such auspicious symbolism.

[Guest]

Yeah I agree on both counts. 

I meant it's b.s. people would use it to represent Christ.

[Nihil Obstat]

I mean, the swastika was a pretty innocuous symbol before Hitler got a hold of it. Too bad. I do hope someday normal, sane society can reclaim the swastika. May take centuries though.