dUSt Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 A man thinks it should be perfectly legal to murder another human being. This man's actions are publically reprimanded by top Vatican officials. This man continues to call himself Catholic. What is the Church [b]suppose[/b] to do? Just say, "oh, nevermind, he can continue to be called Catholic--we'll get over that whole baby killing thing, as we don't want to start any trouble in the press". C'mon man. John Kerry's action are EVIL. His actions [b]are[/b] snake like. Does that make him evil? If a man is defined by his actions, it would appear so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 3 2004, 12:59 AM'] John Kerry is being charged with heresy in Canon Courts. Good? Bad? Neutral? I say BAD! Very BAD! [/quote] First of all I say we look at the reasons behind excommunication. My mom thinks it's something that needs to be done away with, but I personally think that it is necessary. First of all, he is someone who claims to be representing the Church. How many people weak in their faith will fall into a trap from his lies? The Church is there to try and save all souls, and if She neglects these, then She is neglecting Her duty to Christ. Also, excommunication can benefit the person excommunicated. Each time we go to Holy Communion and receive Jesus in a state of mortal sin what we're doing is bringing damnation upon ourselves (not that we probably won't go to Hell as it is), but this is one of the most grave sins that we can commit. It's not something you really want to do. To charge Kerry with heresy is the only way that they can get him excommunicated. Everytime we say "Amen!" we profess that we uphold [i]all[/i] the teachings of the Church. Kerry doesn't do this, and therefore has really excommunicated himself. We don't want him to say that he's representing the Church when he's not. If a guy wanted to legalize murder, would you want him to say he's Catholic? I sure hope not. [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 3 2004, 12:59 AM']Firstly, it will make it appear that the Church is becoming involed in poltics *which the guy bringing this case everywell maybe.* That is probly not good for the Catholic Church. Esp senice it is being done during an election year, when Mr. Kerry is running for the office of the Pres. PRwise it isn't going to be good.[/quote] How does this make the Church look like it's in politics? I think it looks like the Church purifying herself personally. Something that in some cases needs to be done. [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 3 2004, 12:59 AM']Secondly, will doing this really bring any less scandal on the American Catholic Church? If Ameican Catholics are able to be mislead by Mr. Kerry (as some claim) about the Church and abortion, what will lead them to understand the goal of Canon law. Canon law is not meant to be punitive but to teach a lesson and bring that person back into the folds of the Roman Catholic Church. Today, many people don't see it as such. They see excom as something REALLY bad (which it is) and irrevesable. Hello! We have all been excommed once or more like 1000's of times. It is desgined to sperate us from the Church so we relize how much we need Mother Church, mend our ways, and come home and ask for foregiveness. The papers are going to hype it if Mr. Kerry is excommed and make it seems as though it were lasting and forever. Doing so would, in many peoples minds, make the Church look like she is disreagarding Catholic teachings on forgiveness. Thereby, bringing even MORE scandal to the Church.[/quote] In America we are so used to things being our way we forget that there are other rules out there. Canon Law is binding and not to enforce it would be very unjust. Why should there be a law that doesn't apply to Americans just because they're so prideful? Personally I think that this would be a good thing. Think about this in terms of our own laws. We all choose to be citizens where we are (at a certain age). Doing so we all agree to follow the laws here. Therefore if we don't, we are able to be punished. That's justice. It's like dUSt here. We all agree to play by his rules, therefore he can enforce them, as he does. He is a very just person. Kerry and all American Catholics choose to follow Rome. All who say "Amen!" when they receive Holy Communion had best believe everything and agree to follow the Church (don't take this out of context please. , I'm talking about infallible and binding doctrine and authority). Therefore by saying that "Amen!" we are asking that the Church also uphold her end. If dUSt didn't enforce the rules here, it would be more difficult, and definately not as much fun. That's why I'm so happy he does it! I love you dUSt! Anyways, by clicking "I agree" as I joined this phorum, I acknowledged his authority and said I would live by it. Now, beyond all of this, I personally believe that Kerry is definately not helping his soul by going to Mass and Holy Communion and defying the Bishops and Church. It's not good for his soul, nor for all those who follow him. Remember, there are also non-Catholics at stake here, and they can use this by saying that the Church doesn't uphold what it teaches and all inside can believe whatever, turning them away, causing a grave scandal in itself. Better to have people "angry" because the Church is doing stuff right than because nothing is done to promote justice. Anways, this is just my .02. Edited July 3, 2004 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 [quote]How does this make the Church look like it's in politics? I think it looks like the Church purifying herself personally. Something that in some cases needs to be done. [/quote] exactly. -_- to even say the media plays a part in this or in the Church is crazy and just plain ridiculous...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 We are called to do the right thing no matter what the world thinks about it. Promoting the killing of children is a sin and a crime against humanity. Kerry actively promotes it and still claims to be Catholic and even takes Communion in an act of public hypocrisy. It is a slap in the face of Christ and all those who faithfully try to follow his teachings. The Church has a right to discipline and even remove those people who publically sin and claim to be Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 In filing his lawsuit against John F. Kerry for the crime of heresy, Marc Balestrieri, J.C.L., has shown true compassion in his attempt to bring John Kerry back to the fullness of Catholic truth. Hopefully this lawsuit will be heard by the Archdiocese of Boston's tribunal, and hopefully it will help Mr. Kerry to realize the gravity of his sin in supporting the murder of innocent human beings through the crime of abortion. I pray that this brings about Senator Kerry's conversion of heart, and his full assent to the teachings of the Church, both in matters of faith and morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullnaChinaShop Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 3 2004, 01:07 AM'] I don't disagree with you Micah but I think the timing my call more scandal on the Church and make it look like she is trying to play poltics with Canon law. We have already heard that about communion... [/quote] You say you are concerned about more scandal for the Church. Are you more concerned about scandal for the Church as the world or the Church would define it? If Kerry and all other "Catholics" who publicly spread falsities about Church teachings are not held accountable then scandal is allowed to continue. We already have a scandal that affects the spirituality of other Catholics. It is the world that wants us to see scandal in dealing with scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Catherine Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I just really hope this is a wake up call for Senator Kerry. He needs to realize that he can't have it both ways, personally pro-life but publically pro-choice. And he does have my prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 (edited) If kerry would publically repent and retract his statement on abortion, stem cell etc (anything against the church), I would vote for him. Edited July 3, 2004 by Oik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 2 2004, 11:52 PM'] None of those statements hit me as overwhelming Catholic or Charitable. We see that Kerry's soul is in danger, we should be praying for him, not rejoicing that he is being charged as a hertic. We should be praying for his converstion and his acepttant of the Church. Just my 2cents. [/quote] Would you call Paul uncharitable for advocating that the man in the incestuous relationship in 1 Cor. 5 have his body handed over to Satan so that his soul may be saved? Or his remarks in Titus 1 regrding Cretans being liars, beasts, and lazy gluttons? Or what about what Christ said about those who scandalize children would be better off thrown into the sea with a millstone around their necks? If you would, then it appears that being "uncharitable" at times is biblically sanctioned. I agree that tact is necessary and that we should not put our feet in our mouths, but charity is not an absolute that should be used in a knee-jerk reaction to silence people who preach the truth. Now, whether this backfires and causes sympathy votes for him, that is a different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 2 2004, 11:52 PM'] Something about this thread bugs me. Not that Kerry is being charged, which bugs me kinda because the guy who is charging him is doing so now, why didn't he do it before? He didn't have to wait on the Bishops. Three years ago did he know of Kerry? So that kinda bugs me, it seems like he is doing it more out of vendetta than true worry for the Church. But what bugs me more are people replying to this news like None of those statements hit me as overwhelming Catholic or Charitable. We see that Kerry's soul is in danger, we should be praying for him, not rejoicing that he is being charged as a hertic. We should be praying for his converstion and his acepttant of the Church. Just my 2cents. [/quote] Why would Catholics be somewhat pleased by this? Because John Kerry is a disgrace to Catholics everywhere and makes a mockery of faithful Catholics worldwide. He is not a Catholic in his words, his actions or the protection of the unborn. He is "marketing" himself as Catholic, making some insane connection with John F. Kennedy (to the point he has rolled out a middle intial that equates him to John F. Kerry). Keep in mind Lucifer was once an angel and his actions had him banished. This is round 30,000,000+ and may Good always defeat Evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 i want to be a canonical lawyer...or judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 anyone seen anything else bout this from the secular media yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 I just think that the Church officially declaring the Pro-Abortion/Relativism heresy could be a staggering blow to abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 3 2004, 06:29 PM'] anyone seen anything else bout this from the secular media yet? [/quote] I think Fox [i]might[/i] have mentioned it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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