Modesty

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:00 PM'] \

[url="http://www.olrl.org/virtues/pants.shtml"]http://www.olrl.org/virtues/pants.shtml[/url]


\ [/quote]
What are the good Cardinal's qualifications to discuss the psychology of womens clothing?

[Luthien]

Sarcastic Stare, and yes. :wub:

Edited December 1, 2004 by Luthien

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Dec 1 2004, 03:39 PM'] Sarcastic Stare, and yes. :wub: [/quote]
mister peterson says that's okay. Sarcastic Man needs friends too.

[Balthazor]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Dec 1 2004, 02:00 PM'] shorts are definitely immodest for girls, regardless of what is on them...

as far as how to judge modesty, here is what the Church has said about it. These are directives from the Church: "We recall that a dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows, and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knee. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper."

Pope Pius XI said: "Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but, if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see to it that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to don immodest garb."

(So much for the: "this is the attire for gym/sports/working out, etc." argument)

Pope Pius XII elaborated on this: "Now many girls do not see anything wrong with following certain shameless styles (fashions) like so many sheep. They would surely blush if they could only guess the impressions they make and the feelings they evoke (arouse) in those who see them."

And again: "O Christian mothers, if only you knew the future distress, peril and ill-restrained shame that you prepare for your sons and daughters by imprudently accustoming them to live barely clothed, and permitting them to lose the sense of modesty, you would be ashamed of yourselves, and of the harm done to the little ones entrusted to you by Heaven to be reared in a Christian dignity and culture."


The opinion which allows custom to dictate the question of modesty was refuted by Pope Pius XII in one short sentence: "There always exists an absolute norm to be preserved."

Custom, of course, pays no attention to absolute norms; but, it is a follower of this false principle: "... the majority cannot go wrong."

Pope Pius XII: To say that "... modesty is a matter of custom" is just as wrong as to say that "... honesty is a matter of custom."

What about those who teach "What is customary does not affect us?"

Pope Pius XII calls this application of an ancient principle to the virtue of modesty, "the most insidious of sophisms." He calls attention to the fact that some people use this sophism "...in order to brand as 'old fashioned' the rebellion of honest people against fashions they consider too bold."

The Pope's pronouncements make no distinctions for various types of garments. Pius XII states "...an unworthy, an indecent mode of dress has prevailed" without any distinction of place, "on beaches, in country resorts, on the streets, etc." (Aug. 29. 1954)

Also noted in 1959 was published (this is under John XXIII): "A special danger to morals is represented by public bathing at beaches... Mixed bathing between men and women, which is nearly always a proximate occasion of sin and a scandal, must be avoided."

The holy Pontiff also order directives concerning women wearing men's clothes (pants) be published (1960). Here is a link to this information:

[url="http://www.olrl.org/virtues/pants.shtml"]http://www.olrl.org/virtues/pants.shtml[/url]


Someone was asking about how to dress for men. Here is the answer:

And, men also are held to the virtue of modesty; witness the admonition of Canadian bishops in May of 1946: "Man himself does not escape from the inclination of exhibiting his flesh: some go in public, stripped to the waist, or in very tight pants or in very scanty bathing suits. They thus commit offenses against the virtue of modesty. They may also be an occasion of sin (in thought or desire) for our neighbor." [/quote]
Good Lord! The He must think you men have no control at all!
I mean I think that maybe some guys are lechers, but he seems to think that you are all lecherous......

Are you?

hmmmm.....I wonder if you guys have ever tried rollerblading, biking, or skiing in a full length dress?
I tried rollerblading in a long skirt once.....disasterous. Not good at all.
I am normally pretty graceful...but it was like putting iceskates on a cow.....not something I would reccomend.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:15 PM'] Good Lord! The He must think you men have no control at all!
I mean I think that maybe some guys are lechers, but he seems to think that you are all lecherous......

Are you?

hmmmm.....I wonder if you guys have ever tried rollerblading, biking, or skiing in a full length dress?
I tried rollerblading in a long skirt once.....disasterous. Not good at all.
I am normally pretty graceful...but it was like putting iceskates on a cow.....not something I would reccomend. [/quote]
let's all just wear jumpsuits like in 1984.





















or Bottlerocket.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:17 PM'] let's all just wear jumpsuits like in 1984.





















or Bottlerocket. [/quote]
you mean the book, right? not the actual year....

[Balthazor]

that would be fine with me,
I like coveralls.....they keep you from getting oil on your clothes...and other less pleasant things when you are in the barn working.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:26 PM'] you mean the book, right? not the actual year.... [/quote]
I mean the movie, with John Hurt and Angelica Huston.


Paul Rubens was great in that.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:28 PM'] Paul Rubens was great in that. [/quote]
oh... no....


and i prefer mini skirts and go-go boots ala Star Trek

[Lil Red]

just a thought....it is harder (not impossible but harder) to dress modestly when you've got a little "junk in the trunk" or a little better endowed than others....such things make it harder to dress more modest without looking frumpy (and unattractive, which can also cause speculation and draw attention)

[Balthazor]

Do you guys know how hard it is to be humble when you are this good lookin'?

It is a curse I tell you a curse.

[FutureSoror]

I think I know what you're sayin, Lil Red

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:35 PM'] mister peterson wants to know if you're still dating Sarcastic Man. [/quote]
I'd think that if she weren't she'd take that avatar picture of them together down. :haha:

[quote]or Bottlerocket. [/quote]

I Love that movie. lol "Its a leaf..." I actually know a guy who bought a yellow jumpsuit and would wear it around campus... he was fairly tall and really skinny... he looked kinda like a pencil, or a banana.... lol

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Dec 1 2004, 06:42 PM']
I Love that movie. lol "Its a leaf..." I actually know a guy who bought a yellow jumpsuit and would wear it around campus... he was fairly tall and really skinny... he looked kinda like a pencil, or a banana.... lol [/quote]
The world needs dreamers.

I wonder if a yellow jumpsuit would go with Captain Caveman? :thinking:

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:39 PM'] What are the good Cardinal's qualifications to discuss the psychology of womens clothing? [/quote]
That's a slippery argument. Care to revise it?

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Dec 1 2004, 06:42 PM'] I'd think that if she weren't she'd take that avatar picture of them together down. :haha:
[/quote]
mister peterson thought it was a picture of him. He says,

[Thomas Michael]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:47 PM'] Do you guys know how hard it is to be humble when you are this good lookin'?

It is a curse I tell you a curse. [/quote]
Reminds me of that old country song...

"O Lord, it's hard to be humble... when you're perfect in every way..."

[Thomas Michael]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Dec 1 2004, 02:00 PM'] as far as how to judge modesty, here is what the Church has said about it. These are directives from the Church: "We recall that a dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows, and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knee. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper."

Pope Pius XII elaborated on this: "Now many girls do not see anything wrong with following certain shameless styles (fashions) like so many sheep. They would surely blush if they could only guess the impressions they make and the feelings they evoke (arouse) in those who see them."

And again: "O Christian mothers, if only you knew the future distress, peril and ill-restrained shame that you prepare for your sons and daughters by imprudently accustoming them to live barely clothed, and permitting them to lose the sense of modesty, you would be ashamed of yourselves, and of the harm done to the little ones entrusted to you by Heaven to be reared in a Christian dignity and culture." [/quote]
Right here is absolute proof that our bishops are not actively enforcing some things that the Church teaches. If these standards were really applied to our churches, we wouldn't be seeing all these skin-baring fashions at Mass... no more women (and this also goes for brides or bridesmaids) in strapless dresses or other revealing styles, no more guys in muscle shirts and cut-off shorts.

I'm very lenient (to a point) in how people should dress in everyday life. But in a church, one should dress modestly out of respect for God.

[Dave]

But Pius XII was advancing his private views on what would be considered modest; he wasn't teaching it as doctrine. The Church teaches that we must be modest, but it doesn't teach just what would be considered immodest. Of course, there are things like nudity and really short skirts that would always be immodest no matter what. But there are other things that, while they wouldn't be considered immodest now, would've been considered immodest a long time ago. Remember that years ago it was considered immodest for women to show their ankles. So the key is to use prudence.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 1 2004, 06:47 PM'] Do you guys know how hard it is to be humble when you are this good lookin'?

It is a curse I tell you a curse. [/quote]


[b]"WOMAN![/b] - Animal