Priscilla Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Without getting into any sordid details I wanted to a question: Do Catholics think masturbation is OK? If so, do Catholics consider masturbation to be a lesser sin than contraception? I am assuming that they do, because if a couple have to abstain so as not to use contraception, and the man gets frustrated then I guess it's going to happen (even if not self-indulgently, then accidentally). My own view is that both are wrong, and should be kept under control where possible.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 The Catholic Church is equally (100%) against both contraception and masturbation. I also don't believe that every man is going to masturbate even accidentally at some point.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 [quote]By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved." To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability. -Catechism of the Catholic Church 2352 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. -Catechism of the Catholic Church 2396[/quote]
God Conquers Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 uh... no, not ok. Also not less bad than contraception. How can you "accidentally" masturbate? This seems a contradiction in terms.
Priscilla Posted April 18, 2005 Author Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 18 2005, 09:17 AM'] uh... no, not ok. Also not less bad than contraception. How can you "accidentally" masturbate? This seems a contradiction in terms. [/quote] I meant the difference between deliberately indulging in it, and when say men have a dream or something and they can't help it. but maybe this subject should be stoped as people don't seem so happy about it. i was just curious.
God Conquers Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Having a nocturnal emmission is not masturbation, as it is involuntary.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 18 2005, 10:26 AM'] Having a nocturnal emmission is not masturbation, as it is involuntary. [/quote] Yes. Wet dreams are not voluntary and therefore, not sinful. As a scrupulant, I'm very familiar with this issue.
Brother Adam Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Men can overcome masturbation. For those that become addicted to it, it is difficult, equally as much as coming off of some illegal drugs, but very possible.
God Conquers Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Also, your post presumes a couple of things which are not true: 1) Abstinence automatically means frustration. Abstinence might at times be difficult, might at times be frustrating, but not in all cases and not all the time. Not having sex for a week (or less) will not hurt anyone. And very closely related to the first 2) Men have to "get it on" when they want to. Whether with a partner or without. Men are perfectly capable of abstinence. They don't have to have sex or masturbate 24-7 or whenever they want to or whenever they get frustrated. Some things you just don't do. Sexual moral action is determined by man, not from outside forces acting upon him/her.
Priscilla Posted April 18, 2005 Author Posted April 18, 2005 Thanks for all that - that's helped me to understand the Catholics position more. It's just that I read somewhere recently that around 90% of the male population do it so I wondered how it was dealt with. It is never ever discussed in prot churches - it's kinda swept under the carpet, but I think people would like guidance on it and to know that generally it is wrong. Thanks everyone: sorry its not a very nice subject, but these forums are great for touching on difficult issues like this whereas you wouldn't dare mention it in your own circles as its way too embarrassing!!!
Brother Adam Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 I know what you mean about it being swept under the rug. Actually many prot churches see nothing wrong with it at all and encourage it in young boys as a means of 'letting off steam'. It's how I ended up with an addiction way back when. Funny thing is, even though they told me it was okay, I still always felt like carp. I would guess you are right on the 90% number, though I think 90% is the number of men who have, as opposed to who do on a regular basis.
infinitelord1 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 this has definitely been my hardest sin to give up. i never felt wrong for it, but i know it is wrong......however, everytime i do it i feel like there is more that should be included in a sexual act (love).
jezic Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 to destroy life is a mortal sin. this action constitutes a mortal sin when you know and do it anyway. However, habit can mitigate the circumstances but it is still seriously wrong. It is something that a lot of people deal with though.
Priscilla Posted April 18, 2005 Author Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 18 2005, 10:38 AM'] Also, your post presumes a couple of things which are not true: 1) Abstinence automatically means frustration. Abstinence might at times be difficult, might at times be frustrating, but not in all cases and not all the time. Not having sex for a week (or less) will not hurt anyone. And very closely related to the first 2) Men have to "get it on" when they want to. Whether with a partner or without. Men are perfectly capable of abstinence. They don't have to have sex or masturbate 24-7 or whenever they want to or whenever they get frustrated. Some things you just don't do. Sexual moral action is determined by man, not from outside forces acting upon him/her. [/quote] I was thinking more of any poor soul that has a really strong sex drive. I'm blessed as I could live celibately: as I'm sure many people can. But for others its not so easy. My husband knows a lovely Christian man who really loves the Lord (and is also married), but his wife is often tired because of a stressful job; yet this man has a very strong sex drive which he finds difficult to control. All my husband could do was pray with him about it. I guess the Lord understands in cases like this? After all, He created us.
Melchisedec Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:51 PM'] I was thinking more of any poor soul that has a really strong sex drive. I'm blessed as I could live celibately: as I'm sure many people can. But for others its not so easy. My husband knows a lovely Christian man who really loves the Lord (and is also married), but his wife is often tired because of a stressful job; yet this man has a very strong sex drive which he finds difficult to control. All my husband could do was pray with him about it. I guess the Lord understands in cases like this? After all, He created us. [/quote] Playing devils advocate Isn't it god that also requires one to transcend beyond their bodily limitations.
Paphnutius Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:56 PM'] Playing devils advocate Isn't it god that also requires one to transcend beyond their bodily limitations. [/quote] You make it sound like He requires us to transcend something beyond our nature and leaves it at that. He does indeed ask us to overcome the taint of sin, but He does not leave us on the ground. He pours His grace upon us and helps us up. We are not Deists, but Christian.
Melchisedec Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:58 PM'] You make it sound like He requires us to transcend something beyond our nature and leaves it at that. He does indeed ask us to overcome the taint of sin, but He does not leave us on the ground. He pours His grace upon us and helps us up. We are not Deists, but Christian. [/quote] I dont think discipline is beyond our nature.
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