jezic Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 to destroy life is a mortal sin. this action constitutes a mortal sin when you know and do it anyway. However, habit can mitigate the circumstances but it is still seriously wrong. It is something that a lot of people deal with though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 18 2005, 10:38 AM'] Also, your post presumes a couple of things which are not true: 1) Abstinence automatically means frustration. Abstinence might at times be difficult, might at times be frustrating, but not in all cases and not all the time. Not having sex for a week (or less) will not hurt anyone. And very closely related to the first 2) Men have to "get it on" when they want to. Whether with a partner or without. Men are perfectly capable of abstinence. They don't have to have sex or masturbate 24-7 or whenever they want to or whenever they get frustrated. Some things you just don't do. Sexual moral action is determined by man, not from outside forces acting upon him/her. [/quote] I was thinking more of any poor soul that has a really strong sex drive. I'm blessed as I could live celibately: as I'm sure many people can. But for others its not so easy. My husband knows a lovely Christian man who really loves the Lord (and is also married), but his wife is often tired because of a stressful job; yet this man has a very strong sex drive which he finds difficult to control. All my husband could do was pray with him about it. I guess the Lord understands in cases like this? After all, He created us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:51 PM'] I was thinking more of any poor soul that has a really strong sex drive. I'm blessed as I could live celibately: as I'm sure many people can. But for others its not so easy. My husband knows a lovely Christian man who really loves the Lord (and is also married), but his wife is often tired because of a stressful job; yet this man has a very strong sex drive which he finds difficult to control. All my husband could do was pray with him about it. I guess the Lord understands in cases like this? After all, He created us. [/quote] Playing devils advocate Isn't it god that also requires one to transcend beyond their bodily limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:56 PM'] Playing devils advocate Isn't it god that also requires one to transcend beyond their bodily limitations. [/quote] You make it sound like He requires us to transcend something beyond our nature and leaves it at that. He does indeed ask us to overcome the taint of sin, but He does not leave us on the ground. He pours His grace upon us and helps us up. We are not Deists, but Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Apr 18 2005, 01:58 PM'] You make it sound like He requires us to transcend something beyond our nature and leaves it at that. He does indeed ask us to overcome the taint of sin, but He does not leave us on the ground. He pours His grace upon us and helps us up. We are not Deists, but Christian. [/quote] I dont think discipline is beyond our nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Perhaps I misunderstood then. I thought you were stating that God called us to overcome concupisence as much as we can, but does not offer grace. I thought you were making a claim that God leaves people to their struggles but calls them to something above their nature. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Another thing that is important to keep in mind is that masturbation is not wrong because it feels good. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that Catholics don't want anyone to experience pleasure. On the contrary, sexual pleasure is a good end of the sexual act. The Catholic view of sex teaches that it has two ends: unitive and procreative. This is why the Church teaches that only married couples may have intercourse. If sex were only for union, anyone could have sex. If it were only for procreation, the Church would support polygamy. Neither of these are morally acceptable. Because masturbation is neither open to life nor bonding the union created in marriage between husband and wife, it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Apr 18 2005, 02:05 PM'] Perhaps I misunderstood then. I thought you were stating that God called us to overcome concupisence as much as we can, but does not offer grace. I thought you were making a claim that God leaves people to their struggles but calls them to something above their nature. My apologies. [/quote] Thats what I get when I try to argue as a theist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='Apr 18 2005, 03:08 PM'] Another thing that is important to keep in mind is that masturbation is not wrong because it feels good. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that Catholics don't want anyone to experience pleasure. On the contrary, sexual pleasure is a good end of the sexual act. The Catholic view of sex teaches that it has two ends: unitive and procreative. This is why the Church teaches that only married couples may have intercourse. If sex were only for union, anyone could have sex. If it were only for procreation, the Church would support polygamy. Neither of these are morally acceptable. Because masturbation is neither open to life nor bonding the union created in marriage between husband and wife, it is wrong. [/quote] :thumb: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 18 2005, 03:15 PM'] Thats what I get when I try to argue as a theist [/quote] There's an easy cure...become a real theist and it will come naturally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briguy Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 What scripture does the CC base its opinion of masturbation on? - Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Its not unitive or procreative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Some people say it's selfish? Probably... SO WHAT? :angry: I personally don't see anything wrong with it, other than it might entice someone into more sexual deviancy, like porno and more porno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 19 2005, 07:41 AM'] Its not unitive or procreative. [/quote] How is it wrong though? I don't want your god bothering arguements, but just because something that acheives pleasure and satisfaction doesn't have to have an ultimate purpose. Masturbation could be warm up for the big league. Staring at womens breasts (I do that a lot) is said to be healthy. We are sexual beings after all, and it's important to keep emenating our testicular "resources" so they keep supplying us with new "fish", so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I hadn't thought of that before, in a direct way. But it is completely true. Everything about contraception denies unity in a marriage as well as procreation. The husband and wife refuse to love each other at St. Paul commends them too. They withhold all of themselves and thus aren't experiencing unity as God meant them to. It denies every single passage on marriage and intercourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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