Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Apotheoun]

This thread is comparing apples and oranges, because while it is true that Star Wars has been a very successful movie series (LOTR has actually been more successful, and is of a higher quality), Star Trek hasn't simply been a movie franchise; instead, it has also been a television franchise.

Thus, in addition to the 10 Star Trek movies, there have been 5 Star Trek prime-time television shows, which have produced more than 700 episodes all together.

1. Star Trek: The Original Series (Sept. 1966 - June 1969)
(79 episodes, plus the original pilot episode "The Cage")

2. Star Trek: The Next Generation (Sept. 1987 - May 1994)
(178 episodes)

3. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (Jan. 1993 - June 1999)
(176 episodes)

4. Star Trek: Voyager (Jan. 1995 - May 2001)
(172 episodes)

5. Star Trek: Enterprise (Sept. 2001 - May 2005)
(98 episodes)

In addition Paramount Pictures produced one animated Star Trek series between September of 1973 and October of 1974 (22 half hour episodes).

It is estimated that the five Star Trek television shows alone have generated between 1.8 billion and 2.8 billion dollars for Paramount Pictures, and they continue to bring in revenue to the studio through syndication rights and merchandising licenses. Star Trek has been the most successful television series in history, producing more hours of entertainment than any other television series filmed in the United States. All of this television production is supplemented by the ten theatrical motion pictures and the more than 750 million dollars that they took in at the domestic box office.

Comparing a franchise that has produced more than 700 hours of entertainment and that repeats daily on television (cable and local syndication) throughout the world, really won't produce a statistical analysis that is fair to either franchise. In fact, in the long run, Star Wars would be the loser, because it is limited to 6 theatrical films, while Star Trek has made more than 700 hours of entertainment programing and will at some point in the future be back on television and in theaters with new episodes.

As the Borg are famous for saying: [b]"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile!"[/b]

[Didacus]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 11 2005, 04:25 PM']That is your opinion, and your opinion alone.  Many would say Star Wars does a better job inspiring the audience towards something greater than they are (Luke, a farmboy, grows up and saves the universe is one example).  There is so many emotional and moral messages in Star Wars, especially with Anakin/Vader, about the story of Anakin's fall and his salvation at the end. 

If you want to know which is more culturally-impacting and inspiring, just look at pop-culture.  Star Wars is a phenomenon.  A 100 years from now, kids will still be hearing about a story that took place a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.  Not only has Star Wars impacted and changed the film industry in a big way (ILM is a prime example), it also changed the lives of countless millions.  It's a modern-day classic, a "space opera", a place where kids can dream of. 

I enjoy watching Star Trek: The Next Generation from time to time, but I doubt people would be reading Trek novels in the same light as a fantasy genre.  While with Star Wars, it has the pleasure to be under both sci-fi [b]and[/b] fantasy genres.  Which one do you think kids would enjoy as bedtime stories, about a 100 years from now?
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And this is your opinion and opinion alone...

You like watching Star Trek from time to time... I liked watching Star Wars... once....maybe watch it again in ten years while my kids are growing up... maybe...


I never said Star Wars did not inspire others to become more than they are, I said Star Trek was more successful in this department than was Star Wars.

So many emotional and moral messages? You can read as much into any 12 episodes of Star Trek than you can in the 6 movies of Star WArs...well maybe that's streching it a bit... but not much. Amongst the 700+ hours of Star Trek entertainment is folds more emotional ana moral issues being explored than with Star Wars... With added issues such as scientific and theoretical questions facing not just humans of today but possibly the future.

100 years from now Star Trek will be remembered as a series generations ahead of its time, Star Wars wil be remembered as a kid's story - maybe. I like that... a kid's story...

Star Wars has as many chances to be remembered 100 years from now than Alien (the future boggy-man), Friday the 13th, Hellraiser, SpiderMan, SuperMan, WonderWoman, Basketball, and socres of other 'nice stories' with morals and others values than can be found if someone squinted their eyes enough.

Star Trek posed serious and obvious questions during every single of its series and movies. Exploring issues that will be remembered as historical (cold war) to issues that where seen as being only emerging (cloning) to those seen as being only theoretical at the time (worm holes) and did so while still exploring the concepts of good and evil, damnation salvation, love/hate, and all that good stuff you claim for the 'nice story' of Star Wars.

[font="Times"][i]God bless the Star Trek fans, and enlighten the Star Wars fanatics....[/font][/i]

[ilovechrist]

what amazing support you all give for both Star Trek and Star Wars... the fans are usually knowledgable in the category of which they obsess about.

however, my vote goes to Star Trek. yes, if someone isn't a fan of a 1-hour episode a week (when you will soon be able to buy the Star Wars Trilogy to watch OVER and OVER again WHENEVER you want... joy... NOT!), then they probably won't be a Trekkie.

i didn't even START with the movies or television. i found the Star Trek novels! those books alone destroy my former favorites of Hardy Boys, because of the content. Gene R. worked endlessly to combine the culture we have now... and place it in the future, with his own imagination of new races, galaxies, etc. --> he did a pretty darn good job.

yes, i enjoy pod racing and lightsaber fighting as much as the next Yoda, but these two don't come close. Star Trek ideas have developed into new forms of health care--with the new medical imaging technology, bioenergetic testing, and the devices to apply medicine with (that McCoy was using) are now being used in hospitals worldwide. that's just the beginning. Star Trek, while combining with reality, gives us the freedom for our imagination to run wild (similar to Star Wars), by giving us the fantasies of traveling in space, exploring new worlds, meeting new people... humanoids.

unfortunately, Star Wars doesn't have the intensity, the room to have the continuous plots and stories run for miles... it simply focuses on a few particular characters who just happen to be the trainees/trainers, all in the Force, who go out to save the universe. they make things too simple for me to appreciate their work--but all their movies make a good rainy afternoon's watching worthwhile.

if you're going to debate over something, have something to back it up--here are my links to prove the medical success everyone has thanks to the creators of the original series' imagination.

[url="http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/06/issue/demo.asp"]http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/0.../issue/demo.asp[/url]

[url="http://www.icnr.com/articles/stm.html"]http://www.icnr.com/articles/stm.html[/url]

[url="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/15/BUGLV5J6GT1.DTL&type=business"]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&type=business[/url]

[url="http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/life-imitates-star-trek-sonoprep-needleless-injection-022206.php"]http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/life-imita...tion-022206.php[/url]

[Didacus]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 11 2005, 04:51 PM']I want to know the Trekkies' comments on this:

William Shatner sung to George Lucas at the AFI's Life Achievement Awards (forced by stormtroopers mind you).  They had two hours about George Lucas' accomplishments, and William Shatner was the first one on stage to congradulate him.  A major Star Trek star, at a Star Wars event.

[snip]
I'll be posting the video in a moment.
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i think its great and very representative of Star Trek that William donated some time and energy to give homage to Lucas. It shows respect for others, and devotion to the best of human ideals and christian, even Catholic doctrine.

Unfortunately, those brash and insulting men in the white suits seem to force themselves on the poor willing William, and thus this respect and devotion to human ideals does not seem to be mutual on the Star Wars side... oh well,... i mean did Princess Laia sing at Spock's birthday? No, never did, never will...

The picture alone serves as proof of the sharp contrast between Star Wars and Star Trek!

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jul 12 2005, 09:47 AM']Unfortunately, those brash and insulting men in the white suits seem to force themselves on the poor willing William, and thus this respect and devotion to human ideals does not seem to be mutual on the Star Wars side... oh well,... i mean did Princess Laia sing at Spock's birthday?  No, never did, never will...
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What do you expect, they are the Galactic Empire!


In all seriousness, I'm glad both shows exist. Majority of Star Wars fans today (inlcuding myself) do not hate Star Trek, but we act like we do in a joking matter and for old-times sake. What I like about Star Trek is the complexity of it's story in each episode (TNG is my favorite). Star Wars is more simple, aimed for all ages (which includes children), it wasn't suppost to be a very complex tale. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I guess that depends on the eye of the beholder; everyone has their preferences, why not have both co-exist in the same industry? Notice how the poll isn't [b]"Which one is superior"[/b] or [b]"Which one is rules"[/b], but [b][i]"Which one do you prefer more"[/b][/i].

Though I am curious on how the new live-action Star Wars television series will do (it'll take place between episodes 3 and 4), and the CGI animated series too. Both should be coming in about a year or two.

[Didacus]

Ah, Paladin, you have a way of ruining someone's fun!
Oh well...

Truth be told, I like star wars, but I prefer Star Trek, like the poll said. the reason being that i find star Trek much more involved than Star Wars on several levels.

Tis true, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Smiles all around, and hope I didn't p--- off too many people with my antics...

[God Conquers]

Star Wars.


Per the "reality" discussion:

Sure, I'll give Star Trek the win there when it comes to "realistic" (haha, relatively) science and technology.

However: Star Wars definately wins on the social/political scale.

Lucas' "dirty space" concept revolutionized science fiction. We don't live in a perfect world, and in the future, it will not be perfect and clean with no wars and nopoor and downtrodden. It will be dirty, smelly and unfair, just like it is now. Star Wars does and excellent job portraying this, Star Trek is like a neo-liberal dream world.

[White Knight]

Well... I know this really isn't considered a General Poll, because only Phatmass users can vote on it, so we aren't the majority people voting for ethier one.


In terms of Money, Popluarity, Culture, and Story Star Wars Rules hands down.

In serms of story in "Somecases" Star Trek Wins hands down, its how you look at it really.


Star Trek may have been the first sucessful Science Fiction Show back in the 60s, but Star Wars Stole its thunder after 1977. and Star Trek has never been on top since.

Lets just say, Star Trek and Star Wars had its Glory Run. Star Wars is now said and Done with Movies.

Star Trek as far as movies go I think there finished. not sure, there lastest Television Show just ended "Enterprise" ended earlier this year.


Both had there golden age sould we say.

Edited July 12, 2005 by White Knight

[Paladin D]

Here's the video of William Shatner at the AFI's life achievement award show for George Lucas: [url="http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1SLG8PR5QMOUN3VT4FYN88M1PC"]http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1SLG8PR...UN3VT4FYN88M1PC[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Jul 12 2005, 10:05 AM']In terms of Money,  Popluarity, Culture, and Story Star Wars Rules hands down.
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It depends upon how you "count" the money. Star Trek has generated a huge income for Paramount Pictures, comparable to, and possibly larger than Star Wars has made for Lucasfilm. The LA Times on 8 September 1996 reported that Paramount Picture was collecting 1.5 billion dollars from licensing fees alone for Star Trek at that time. Moreover, not all of Lucasfilm's value is based on the Star Wars franchise, because it also has a special effects company (and other companies), so you can't simply use its networth to determine the value of Star Wars.

As far as popular "culture" is concerned, Star Trek has had a massive impact on American culture, tons of catch phrases come from Star Trek, like "beam me up," "he's dead Jim," "resistance is futile," etc., and many other things. It really is not possible to quantify cultural impact; consequently a debate on the issue would be pointless.

That being said, it is still not clear that Star Wars can successfully cross over into television, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[White Knight]

I dunno about that. Star Wars total in films has made almost 2 billion dollars, In Sales, SW has achieved almost 9.8 billion, again almost 10 billion dollars. from 77-05 28 years worth. SW has made alot more money in its less time than ST has.

[Brother Adam]

Through Q, the Borg, and the Klingons into Star Wars and it would be perfect.

[Marieteresa]

Star Trek all the way!!

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Jul 13 2005, 10:36 AM']I dunno about that. Star Wars total in films has made almost 2 billion dollars, In Sales, SW has achieved almost 9.8 billion, again almost 10 billion dollars. from 77-05 28 years worth. SW has made alot more money in its less time than ST has.
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Not when inflation is taken into account. And the 9.8 billion is for Lucasfilm.

[sarcasmguy126]

well if ya look at the poll, star wars is winning!

[White Knight]

Right inflation has alot to do with this too, but Ive looked at some statuses on boxofficemojo.com and other forums, and the conclusion still adds up that Star Trek, hasn't made nearly as much money as Star Wars Has, maybe in the TV Show, but I highly doubt that. but Star Wars has made more money movie wise and in merchant sales than ST has.


Plus SW is fixing to come to the little screen and add more to the dollars. so inflation has very alittle to do with the amount of made both franchises have made.

[reelguy227]

[quote name='ilovechrist' date='Jul 12 2005, 07:51 AM']what amazing support you all give for both Star Trek and Star Wars... the fans are usually knowledgable in the category of which they obsess about.

however, my vote goes to Star Trek.  yes, if someone isn't a fan of a 1-hour episode a week (when you will soon be able to buy the Star Wars Trilogy to watch OVER and OVER again WHENEVER you want... joy... NOT!), then they probably won't be a Trekkie.

i didn't even START with the movies or television.  i found the Star Trek novels!  those books alone destroy my former favorites of Hardy Boys, because of the content.  Gene R. worked endlessly to combine the culture we have now... and place it in the future, with his own imagination of new races, galaxies, etc. --> he did a pretty darn good job.

yes, i enjoy pod racing and lightsaber fighting as much as the next Yoda, but these two don't come close.  Star Trek ideas have developed into new forms of health care--with the new medical imaging technology, bioenergetic testing, and the devices to apply medicine with (that McCoy was using) are now being used in hospitals worldwide.  that's just the beginning.  Star Trek, while combining with reality, gives us the freedom for our imagination to run wild (similar to Star Wars), by giving us the fantasies of traveling in space, exploring new worlds, meeting new people... humanoids.

unfortunately, Star Wars doesn't have the intensity, the room to have the continuous plots and stories run for miles... it simply focuses on a few particular characters who just happen to be the trainees/trainers, all in the Force, who go out to save the universe.  they make things too simple for me to appreciate their work--but all their movies make a good rainy afternoon's watching worthwhile.

if you're going to debate over something, have something to back it up--here are my links to prove the medical success everyone has thanks to the creators of the original series' imagination.

[url="http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/06/issue/demo.asp"]http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/0.../issue/demo.asp[/url]

[url="http://www.icnr.com/articles/stm.html"]http://www.icnr.com/articles/stm.html[/url]

[url="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/15/BUGLV5J6GT1.DTL&type=business"]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&type=business[/url]

[url="http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/life-imitates-star-trek-sonoprep-needleless-injection-022206.php"]http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/life-imita...tion-022206.php[/url]
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If any of the trekkies knew about or read the EU ,theyd see that Star Wars has much more of a story than Star Trek ever will .Theyd also see that there is more to Star Wars than just the movies.

Also,the movies in and of themselves contain a wealth of information ,the backstory behind each character is huge and also behind the locales ,the Star Wars universe possesses more than meets the eye ,if only you trekkies would delve deeper.

[kaidoh]

Star Trek what or all of them like voager was the last 1 i saw cuz the others sucked

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='sarcasmguy126' date='Jul 15 2005, 10:21 AM']well if ya look at the poll, star wars is winning!
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Star Trek came out in the 60's, so money is not a fair comparision.
Star Trek changed an entire generations view of our future. Star Wars is mere fantasy.

[philothea]

Trek!

Though if you'd asked me when i was <10, I'd have preferred Star Wars.