thessalonian Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:30 PM']The way you reacted it seemed this shouldn't be up for discussion really, and I was curious if the Pope's private opinion on this would convince you otherwise. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you though. [right][snapback]651510[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm okay with it being discussed. In the debate forum. Dave has come out with both barrellels flying. "I hope your not serious Thess". Post the quotes. I like reading anything the Pope has to say. By the way I love gregorian chant and wish they would use it more at Mass. I also love the old songs "Now Thank We All our God" and "Praise to the Lord" etc. etc. I don't like when those shallow Protestant songs are used at Mass. So there definitely is some reason for concern. I just don't happen to agree on the dividing line. I've never had a problem discerning when God is speaking in a song and find music and the Eucharistic prayer to be "apples and oranges". Edited July 20, 2005 by thessalonian
jmjtina Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:28 PM']Work for what? It's not something I am going to go running up to the priest about after Mass. [right][snapback]651503[/snapback][/right] [/quote] WHAT is your problem THESS? :angry: First and foremost, the fact is, DAVE posted something that concerned him. Someone didn't like it. So I told them, if they didn't like it they can leave, not in a sarcastic tone, but nicely with a smiley. I've been on this board long enough so people know to take my silliness in stride, especially if I'm trying to lighten the mood of the thread and further you ASKED me who I was and I made a joke about it. Sorry you took it so seriously. I DON"T appreciate your condensing little notes to my PM box either.
qfnol31 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote] Among the Fathers, it was especially Saint Augustine who tried to connect this characteristic view of the Christian liturgy with the world view of Greco-Roman antiquity. In his early work "On Music" he is still completely dependent on the Pythagorean theory of music. According to Pythagoras, the cosmos was constructed mathematically, a great edifice of numbers. Modern physics, beginning with Kepler, Galileo, and Newton, has gone back to this vision and, through the mathematical interpretation of the universe, has made possible the technological use of its powers. For the Pythagoreans, this mathematical order of the universe ("cosmos" means "order"!) was identical with the essence of beauty itself. Beauty comes from meaningful inner order. And for them this beauty was not only optical but also musical. Goethe alludes to this idea when he speaks of the singing contest of the fraternity of the spheres: the mathematical order of the planets and their revolutions contains a secret timbre, which is the primal form of music. The courses of the revolving planets are like melodies, the numerical order is the rhythm, and the concurrence of the individual courses is the harmony. The music made by man must, according to this view, be taken from the inner music and order of the universe, be inserted into the "fraternal song" of the "fraternity of the spheres". The beauty of music depends on its conformity to the rhythmic and harmonic laws of the universe. The more that human music adapts itself to the musical laws of the universe, the more beautiful will it be.[/quote]
homeschoolmom Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:35 PM'] I don't like when those shallow Protestant songs are used at Mass. So there definitely is some reason for concern. [right][snapback]651524[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You're not saying that all Protestant songs are shallow though, right?
qfnol31 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 I saw Dave's first post as asking a question about whether or not he should say anything, and also a concern thread not directly aimed at starting a debate. I started on the other day too, but I'm good at starting something that dies immediately.
thessalonian Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:38 PM']You're not saying that all Protestant songs are shallow though, right? [right][snapback]651533[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No. Many of the newere more modern ones are however.. How does that one go "God, you are my God" or something like that. I do love that one about meeting Jesus, I Can Only IMagine. "When I stand in your prescence to my knees will I fall, Will I sing Halleuah's. Will I be able to sing at all."
qfnol31 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:38 PM']You're not saying that all Protestant songs are shallow though, right? [right][snapback]651533[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I honestly would say many are...at least comparatively.
thessalonian Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='jmjtina' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:37 PM']WHAT is your problem THESS? :angry: First and foremost, the fact is, DAVE posted something that concerned him. Someone didn't like it. So I told them, if they didn't like it they can leave, not in a sarcastic tone, but nicely with a smiley. I've been on this board long enough so people know to take my silliness in stride, especially if I'm trying to lighten the mood of the thread and further you ASKED me who I was and I made a joke about it. Sorry you took it so seriously. I DON"T appreciate your condensing little notes to my PM box either. [right][snapback]651530[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You don't ride people who are obviously getting annoyed. If you don't like what I said you can click that thingy up at the top that says report. Edited July 20, 2005 by thessalonian
jmjtina Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:42 PM']You don't ride people who are obviously getting annoyed. [right][snapback]651547[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Wow, your right. Only I can't see your face, hear your tone, or see your reactions. My intention wasn't to annoy you but to lighten the mood of the thread. Words on the screen are sometimes misinterpreted. I'm sorry, but I didn't appreciate your private message either, so I guess we're even. You can make fun of me without knowing my real intention of the post, but hey, no one is perfect. God Bless. Edited July 20, 2005 by jmjtina
Oik Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 Yeah. Most people would not even read that through the first ten words. Short attention spans are the American way. We need better Catechesis and Sacred music should be part of it. Heck, some Mass parts in Latin should be part of it (the kyrie (even though that's greek), Lord's Prayer, Sanctus, and Angus Dei). I really don't see most people even understanding the theological significance of having Sacred Music at Mass. This of course is unfortunate! What a great lose it is to actively choose the lesser of the Glories that God is freely giving you! There has to be a sense of pride be for "pride of place" will be sensed. Right now what you have is people who want "modern" music because they grew up hearing it. It is not judged for it's sound theology or it's complexity. It is just the opposite, it is praised for it's simplicity and it's "easily understood" pseudo-theology (i.e. Corny analogies). The point that is well taken is that we have musicians! Deo Gratias! It is unfortunate though, that a lot of them shoot for the banal and "low-fat" fruits of our modern age. Are they sucessful? Of course! Shoot for this world and that's where you'll go. Shoot for Heaven and that's where God will guide you.
thessalonian Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='jmjtina' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:47 PM']Wow, your right. Only I can't see your face, hear your tone, or see your reactions. My intention wasn't to annoy you but to lighten the mood of the thread. Words on the screen are sometimes misinterpreted. I'm sorry, but I didn't appreciate your private message either, so I guess we're even. You can make fun of me without knowing my real intention of the post, but hey, no one is perfect. God Bless. [right][snapback]651556[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Seems kinda odd you cant judge my tone but you felt like you had to lighten the mood. How can you tell the mood if not from the words on the page. "notes" There was one and it was intended to make you think a bit before you post next time when the "mood" is a bit off on a thread. I do appologize for that last sentence. It was a bit over. Edited July 20, 2005 by thessalonian
Nicole8223 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 I don't neccessarily enjoy all of those songs, although i like City of God, but I don't think its a major issue. That's just my two-cents. Now, deep breaths all around ladies and gents...
qfnol31 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 I personally am hurt worse by the music than just about anything else.
philothea Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Dave' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:30 PM']At the parish near my house, where I often go for daily Mass, the congregation sings a hymn right at the beginning and right at the end of Mass. Unfortunately, the woman who chooses the hymns doesn't always choose the best ones, and we end up singing "On Eagle's Wings," "Gather Us In," "Here I Am Lord," "Be Not Afraid," "You Are Near," etc. I'm tempted to go to her the next time there's a bad song and ask her to avoid certain hymns from now on (of course, whether or not she'd actually avoid them is probably another matter entirely). But should I? Remember this is daily Mass, where we sing a capella. [right][snapback]651356[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It wouldn't hurt to ask. You might want to offer her some easy alternatives. Are there any songs you prefer that you think the rest of the congregation will be able to sing? I know how difficult it is to have mass be a source of annoyance. I had so much trouble with some things a confessor told me to sit in front and keep my eyes closed during most of the prayers! I don't know how to avoid hearing things, though.
cmotherofpirl Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Dave' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:40 PM']Homeschoolmom-- The hymnals aren't Gather but Glory and Praise, which is just as bad or even worse. Thessalonian-- I seriously hope you're joking! But if not, then the reason why they smell of elderberries is because they're so folk-sounding -- not really the type of music appropriate at Mass. It's Mass, not a hootenanny! Also, songs like "Be Not Afraid" has the congregation singing God's part. I think that's inappropriate. Heck, even when I was a Protestant, I never saw songs in the hymnal where the congregation pretended to be God! [right][snapback]651380[/snapback][/right] [/quote] There is nothing wrong with any of the hymns you mentioned.
qfnol31 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 They're not very pretty. And some of them are very theologically deep...
Colleen Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jul 20 2005, 05:20 PM']They're not very pretty. And some of them are very theologically deep... [right][snapback]651620[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He meant to say, "And some of them are [i]not[/i] very theologically deep."
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