age range

[Brother Adam]

You believe all things are possible with God Carrie, so is the union of two people of the same sex in marriage possible with God?

[Theoketos]

OK EVERY BODY READ THIS AND SEE IF I AM CRAZY BEANS.

I think a good formula is The age of the older person (y) divided by half +7 = acceptable age to date (x).

So

Y/2 + 7 = X

EXAMPLES

15/2 + 7 = 14.5

20/2 +7 = 17

23/2 +7 = 18

30/2 +7= 22

40/2 +7= 27

Yeah, I know, I have too much time on my hands...

But see if this ever fails...and I do not think 15 year olds can really date in our society.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Aug 3 2005, 11:39 AM']You believe all things are possible with God Carrie, so is the union of two people of the same sex in marriage possible with God?
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[/quote]
Nice try with baiting Adam.


There is a difference. A union of people of the same sex is disordered and can never bear children.

The union between a man and woman of different ages is not disordered and can very well bear children.


Nice try though.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:11 AM']I don't think the point is about 'what you want' but rather what is right in the eyes of the Church. I believe canon law states that if there is no possibility for child-bearing there can be no sacramental marriage. But I'm not positive and am trying to look it up right now.
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[/quote]


BUZZZ WRONG

If you can not consumate the marriage, you can not be married. There is no impediment if you are infertile.

[Brother Adam]

It's not baiting, it's a valid point. You said with God all things are possible.

I'm stating that with God all things are possible, but are not in the will of God.

You are stating that I am somehow 'restricting God', but you yourself have just 'restricted God' in the same fashion.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 3 2005, 11:43 AM']BUZZZ WRONG

If you can not consumate the marriage, you can not be married. There is no impediment if you are infertile.
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[/quote]

[Carrie]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Aug 3 2005, 11:43 AM']It's not baiting, it's a valid point. You said with God all things are possible.

I'm stating that with God all things are possible, but are not in the will of God.

You are stating that I am somehow 'restricting God', but you yourself have just 'restricted God' in the same fashion.
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[/quote]
Not true. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I have not restricted God in the matter of same-sex unions. God has done that Himself.

Again, nice try.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 3 2005, 10:43 AM']BUZZZ WRONG

If you can not consumate the marriage, you can not be married. There is no impediment if you are infertile.
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[/quote]

Quit assuming a self-righteous attitude with your "Wrong Buzz's".

If I'm wrong and it is perfectly acceptable for a 108 year old and a 12 year old to be wed, let's see the proof! Out with it!

[Theoketos]

Can. 1083 ß1 A man cannot validly enter marriage before the completion of his sixteenth year of age, nor a woman before the completion of her fourteenth year.

ß2 The Episcopal Conference may establish a higher age for the lawful celebration of marriage.

Can. 1084 ß1 [b]Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.[/b]

ß2 If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether the doubt be one of law or one of fact, the marriage is not to be prevented nor, while the doubt persists, is it to be declared null.

[b]ß3 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage. [/b]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:43 AM']BUZZZ WRONG

If you can not consumate the marriage, you can not be married. There is no impediment if you are infertile.
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[/quote]


That's not entirely true. Couples do need permission to marry if they are physically unable to bear children. There are cases where the Church has not allowed couples to marry for that reason alone.

This is why "Are you willing to bring children into the world" is a non negotiable part of the vows.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Aug 3 2005, 10:45 AM']Not true.  You are comparing apples and oranges.

I have not restricted God in the matter of same-sex unions.  God has done that Himself.

Again, nice try.
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[/quote]

You are right, I am comparing apples with oranges, but you have told me it doesn't matter, because "With God [b]all[/b] things are possible." So are they, or are they not?

[Noel's angel]

why don't you prove it ISN'T ok?

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:47 AM']why don't you prove it ISN'T ok?
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[/quote]


I think hot stuff stated it quite nicely

[quote]That's not entirely true. Couples do need permission to marry if they are physically unable to bear children. There are cases where the Church has not allowed couples to marry for that reason alone.

This is why "Are you willing to bring children into the world" is a non negotiable part of the vows.[/quote]

Thank you hot stuff.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:46 AM']That's not entirely true.  Couples do need permission to marry if they  are physically unable to bear children.  There are cases where the Church has not allowed couples to marry for that reason alone. 

This is why "Are you willing to  bring children into the world" is a non negotiable part of the vows.
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[/quote]
Really? That does seem to fit with the Code of Canon Law I just quoted.

Usually, it is really hard to tell whether a couple is infertile or not with consumation. But to be fair, a Couple must indeed be open to life.

Psst here it is again

[b]ß3 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage. [/b]

Edited August 3, 2005 by Theoketos

[Noel's angel]

you are comparing it with same sex marriages-the Church makes its stance clear on same sex marriages, but I see nothing that says a man must only wed a woman who is less than x number of years older or younger than him

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Yes...but don't they also need to have the ability to have children?

[Noel's angel]

fair enough, if one partner cannot consumate tha marriage, i understand, but we cannot say that there is a limit as to what age a man can do this

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

But we can at what age men can, without it being a miracle, a man have a child.

[Theoketos]

By the way, You may not consumate a marriage (see Mary and Joseph), you just have to be able to do.

And

[b]1099 ß3 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage. [/b]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:50 AM']Really? That does seem to fit with the Code of Canon Law I just quoted.

Usually, it is really hard to tell whether a couple is infertile or not with consumation. But to be fair,  a Couple must indeed be open to life.
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[/quote]


I believe, (and I need to go back and look up my references) that the Canon Law is in respect to couples that marry without the knowledge that one or both of the couple is infertile. That marrying under these pretenses does not invalidate or annul the marriage.

However, (and again I need to look this up) I do know that there are cases where couples were not allowed to marry because the fiance was wounded in war. They knew that they would never be able to bear children and the Church refused to allow the sacrament.

Edited August 3, 2005 by jaime