God Conquers Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Sure, but that still doesn't mean praise and worship doesn't have a place. This is all I'm saying. There are people here who say: "No praise and worship. Period. " Whereas some people (myself and inDEED) are saying: "That's wrong. Praise and worship has a place" It's this exclusivity thing.... we haven't said gregorian chant is bad, we haven't said we shouldn't have it. In fact I've advocated it. BUT somehow that is taken as being anti-traditional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 yes, it has a place: outside of the liturgy. the document of Vatican II is calling for the music that raises heart and mind. P & W raises heart... alot of classical stuff raises mind... sacred polyphany raises them in unity thus more deeply reaching the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I think that article clearly supports the development of sacred music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 How does Gregorian chant raise mind more than P&W....? The only way I can think of is by making me strain my brain to follow and understand what the heck is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 so do I. what's it to you? continue developing the type of music that lifts both heart and mind up to God in unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 I had decided to leave this topic alone...even though I DID start it... But I refuse to allow ANYONE to say that Gregorian chant and an organ BELONGS in the Mass and a guitar/drums/whatever do not... IT IS ABSURD!!!! And dUSt - how do you think over 120,000 teens were INITIALLY drawn to Mass EVERY Sunday? DING DING DING! That's right - THE MUSIC!!!! WOW!!!! Is it SO NEGATIVE that GOD MIGHT JUST USE MUSIC as a TOOL to draw people into the celebration of the MASS???? COME ON NOW!!!! I'll tell you another thing - this goes out to ANYONE reading this topic: [b]DO NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS AND OPINIONS OF PHATMASS.COM OR ANY OTHER "CATHOLIC" WEBSITE. MANY OF THE OPINIONS OF OUR "REGULAR" POSTERS ARE SIMPLY THAT - OPINIONS - AND YES - EVEN THE OPINION OF OUR BELOVED WEBMASTER![/b] If YOU have questions about whether or not something is appropriate in YOUR parish - BRING THEM TO YOUR PRIEST!!!! I am SO SICK of this eternal debate on PHATMASS.COM - IT IS THE REASON I STEPPED DOWN AS MODERATOR. YOUR OPINION OF HOW THE MASS IS CELEBRATED IS NOT ALWAYS EQUAL TO THAT OF ROME. UNTIL my CATECHISM tells me that the use of drums, bongos, electric guitars, percussion instruments, pianos, trumpets, flutes - heck - even TRIANGLES are FORBIDDEN in the sacrifice of the MASS then I will CONTINUE to SUPPORT their use!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 And I think the decisions of nearly every Bishop on earth to allow different forms and instruments clearly illustrates this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 You just called Vatican II rediculous, because it says gregorian chant and polyphony belong to the mass in a way that other types of music do not. [quote name='God Conquers' date='Oct 4 2005, 12:09 AM']How does Gregorian chant raise mind more than P&W....? The only way I can think of is by making me strain my brain to follow and understand what the heck is going on. [right][snapback]745351[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not even talking lyrical content... you've missed that point. It's interesting how people hvae closed their mind onto the prevailing lyricist notion that they won't even listen to a discussion of the inherent qualities of instrumentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 3 2005, 09:14 PM']It's interesting how people hvae closed their mind onto the prevailing lyricist notion that they won't even listen to a discussion of the inherent qualities of instrumentals. [right][snapback]745358[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This REALLY made me laugh... You're telling me that I've closed my mind? DUDE - It is YOU who are cut off to the thought of having something OTHER THAN chant enter into the Mass.... Please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 269 views...I'm LOVIN' THIS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 everyone closes their mind around something. it's a good thing. opening your mind is like opening your mouth-- you only do it to let good things in. if you walked around with your mouth open all of the time you'd catch flies. we both have closed minds. you have closed your mind around the idea that lyrics are the only quality of a musical peice that gives it inherent value. and because of this you are unable to understand the reasons Vatican II is giving for traditional sacred music. I have closed my mind around the idea that instrumentals do affect the inherent quality of the music and that Vatican II is right in saying that it is the music most proper to the Roman Liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 3 2005, 09:20 PM']everyone closes their mind around something. it's a good thing. opening your mind is like opening your mouth-- you only do it to let good things in. if you walked around with your mouth open all of the time you'd catch flies. we both have closed minds. you have closed your mind around the idea that lyrics are the only quality of a musical peice that gives it inherent value. and because of this you are unable to understand the reasons Vatican II is giving for traditional sacred music. I have closed my mind around the idea that instrumentals do affect the inherent quality of the music and that Vatican II is right in saying that it is the music most proper to the Roman Liturgy. [right][snapback]745365[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Dude, seriously - you crack me up... You post something that SEEMS to be summing up this entire discussion when in fact, it does NOTHING to sum up what we've been discussing... If you'd like to see what my "closed mind" represents, go ahead and go to Lifeteen.com and read about what they're doing...in fact - read my sig - 120,000 teens - WEEKLY...gotta LOVE what the music/ministry is doing in bringing teens to the Eucharist...and you know what? I'll bet that 90% of the programs DON'T use Gregorian chant...HOW CAN THAT POSSIBLY BE??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 3 2005, 11:14 PM']You just called Vatican II rediculous, because it says gregorian chant and polyphony belong to the mass in a way that other types of music do not. I'm not even talking lyrical content... you've missed that point. It's interesting how people hvae closed their mind onto the prevailing lyricist notion that they won't even listen to a discussion of the inherent qualities of instrumentals. [right][snapback]745358[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What does this even mean!? I think we need to step back into reality here. I never called VII ridiculous. You people who interpret it backwards (i.e. into history instead of in light of and in union with history) are making it ridiculous. It's even more so because you don't know how to spell ridiculous. The words in that quote do everything to support the primacy of Gregorian Chant and the outline the desirability of new styles of music and intruments. It does NOTHING to support the notion that praise and worship is undesirable, even within the liturgy. I don't even know what the heck the rest of that post means! Let's try to speak English. I know that sometimes sailors try to use big words and pseudo-theology to try and save sinking ships, but it doesn't work as well with arguments. I still haven't heard the reason why we hear guitar and drums in every one of our dioceses and at World Youth Day with the Holy Father joining in the singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 [quote name='inDEED' date='Oct 3 2005, 11:12 PM']And dUSt - how do you think over 120,000 teens were INITIALLY drawn to Mass EVERY Sunday? DING DING DING! That's right - THE MUSIC!!!! WOW!!!! [right][snapback]745355[/snapback][/right][/quote] And why you don't see the problem in this why I don't understand your feeling on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Oct 3 2005, 09:28 PM']I still haven't heard the reason why we hear guitar and drums in every one of our dioceses and at World Youth Day with the Holy Father joining in the singing. [right][snapback]745381[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Still waiting myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now