Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Dave' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:33 PM']So then we can't even talk to our bishop about any priest who's committing liturgical abuses? We might as well keep our mouths shut about any priest who's molesting children. [right][snapback]932953[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes Dave, I think you've got it. Molesting children is a liturgical abuse.
Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:34 PM']this thread stinks of false obedience [right][snapback]932956[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What do you propose Sam. Forcing people not to hold hands, or helping them understand that the Eucharist is Jesus, not just bread?
cmotherofpirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Does anybody have a link to GIRM section on children's masses?
Dave Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='inDEED' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:26 PM']Not way outta line...Just a man speaking his mind... If you want to ignore what I'm sayin' on the forum - please do. The option is fairly simple to reach. [right][snapback]932928[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So it's ok to be rude just so long as you're "speaking [your] mind"? I will not ignore a lack of charity to others.
Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:38 PM']Does anybody have a link to GIRM section on children's masses? [right][snapback]932966[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have every liturgical document that could possibly be relevant about 5 feet away from me. What do you want to know?
dUSt Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 1 2006, 10:24 PM']Unless you are a bishop or his spiritual director it is not your place to correct a priest. [right][snapback]932923[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Not according to Redemptionis Sacramentum. :
cmotherofpirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 what are the norms for a childrens mass? You can't decide if something is done wrong unless you know how its done right.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Father: Sam, I would like you to kill this man Sam: No. There is a God in heaven! am i bieng disobedient?
Charms717RM1 Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:44 PM']Father: Sam, I would like you to kill this man Sam: No. There is a God in heaven! am i bieng disobedient? [right][snapback]932978[/snapback][/right] [/quote] how is this relevent?
inDEED Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Brother Adam... You're speaking so much truth in your posts...I wish I could take them all and make them my sig... You've hit the nail on the head...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Charms717RM1' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:45 PM']how is this relevent? [right][snapback]932979[/snapback][/right] [/quote] apparently we can not correct priests.....ever its FALSE OBIDIENCE
Cam42 Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 2 2006, 12:35 AM']First, talk to the priest. Ask him about his actions and how they align with church instruction regarding the liturgy (you might want to bring the specific documents with you). It's possible he has the bishop's approval, and if he does then he should tell you this. If things do[b] not [/b]get cleared up, then... [color=green]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/color] [i]6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters[/i] [183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism. [184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon [b]or lay member of Christ's faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law[/b], or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity. Praying is a necessity, but action is sometimes required. The church tells us we should go to the local bishop before going to Rome. In the same line of thought, I think it's common courtesy to talk to the priest before going to he bishop. FYI... I'm in the beginning stages of putting together some very charitable and respectful, "liturgical abuse flyers" that will be printable from this website. The idea would be to hand them to choir directors, EMCs, and priests after witnessing a liturgical abuse. They would be meant as a friendly "first step" of correcting abuses. [right][snapback]932960[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yep....what he said....I will post on this thread later today, but as it is, dUSt has it nailed.
Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:35 PM']First, talk to the priest. Ask him about his actions and how they align with church instruction regarding the liturgy (you might want to bring the specific documents with you). It's possible he has the bishop's approval, and if he does then he should tell you this. If things do[b] not [/b]get cleared up, then... [color=green]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/color] [i]6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters[/i] [183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism. [184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon [b]or lay member of Christ's faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law[/b], or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity. Praying is a necessity, but action is sometimes required. The church tells us we should go to the local bishop before going to Rome. In the same line of thought, I think it's common courtesy to talk to the priest before going to he bishop. FYI... I'm in the beginning stages of putting together some very charitable and respectful, "liturgical abuse flyers" that will be printable from this website. The idea would be to hand them to choir directors, EMCs, and priests after witnessing a liturgical abuse. They would be meant as a friendly "first step" of correcting abuses. [right][snapback]932960[/snapback][/right] [/quote] There are a great deal of things you can do in all sorts of various situations when you read through the documents. Ultimately, it is quite likely you will be ignored unless it is a very serious abuse (something beyond whining about people not bowing/genuflecting, holding hands, or gathering around the altar). Bishops know about it. They also know they have to pick their battles, especially in the job they are in. Look at the Compendium that just came out. It has all the common prayers in it in Latin. Now why would Benedict do that? The Church works slowly, but it works.
Guest Rick777 Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 1 2006, 09:24 PM']No, you are suppose to pray. Unless you are a bishop or his spiritual director it is not your place to correct a priest. [right][snapback]932923[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What! Dude, Mother Angelica used to talk about this all the time. You need to correct your priest.
inDEED Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 10:44 PM']Father: Sam, I would like you to kill this man Sam: No. There is a God in heaven! am i bieng disobedient? [right][snapback]932978[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Dude...Check Adam's post again...and don't play "ignorant"... "Your priest has to answer for the salvation of the souls of his parish and he is facing the fire of hell. Follow your priest and be obedient to him, even if you think he is wrong, unless it leads you into sin."
Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:46 PM']apparently we can not correct priests.....ever its FALSE OBIDIENCE [right][snapback]932983[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Once again, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
cmotherofpirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Some activities we have an obligation to discuss with the priest, or take to the bishop, or papal nuncio. For instance in our diocese a priest was giving general absolution instead on individual confession on a weekly basis. That priest was retired after the bishop learned about this from parishoners and other concerned catholics.
Cam42 Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 2 2006, 12:42 AM']Not according to Redemptionus Sacramentum. : [right][snapback]932973[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No need to add the cute smiley.....it is our RIGHT to expect a valid and licit Mass according to the Roman Rite. If we don't get it, we should make the abuses known to the pastor, then the bishop, then if all else fails, the Holy See. It is crystal clear. As my Liturgical mantra has been for a while now: [b]WE HAVE A RIGHT TO THE MASS, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO THE MASS THE WAY WE WANT IT.[/b] This goes for abuses to the right and abuses to the left (ie. schismatic v. clown masses). That's right, I just compared a clown Mass and a schismatic Mass. [quote name='Sacrosanctum Concilium #22']1. [u]Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church[/u], that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. 2. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established. 3. [b]Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.[/b][/quote] The regulation first falls on the universal Church, then in a limited way, to the bishop. We don't have to stand by for abuses. dUSt is right.
dUSt Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 1 2006, 10:54 PM']dUSt is right. [right][snapback]932998[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And it is my right to add a smiley. [no smiley]
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