Phatmass FOR UNITY OF ALL RELIGIONS?

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Rick777' post='1014840' date='Jun 29 2006, 09:28 PM']
What do you mean hating other peoples religion? I always thought it was love the sinner hate the sin?
[/quote]
i meant we can't be hating on people because God taught us love.

he showed us what true love really is

humbling himself to share in our humanity

humbled himself becoming obedient to death

even death on the cross

[Guest Rick777]

Okay, I thought you meant we were supposed to love other religions. Go on.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Rick777' post='1014857' date='Jun 29 2006, 09:41 PM']
Okay, I thought you meant we were supposed to love other religions. Go on.
[/quote]
we are to love God above all things.

[quote name='Myles Domini' date='May 09 2006, 12:28 AM']

God is the first the last and the ultimate.

If God is truly absolutely in act so much so that He cannot by His very nature lack or need anything why would He make anything? God is beyond want so what would possibly motivate Him to make anything?


[/quote]

we are the creatures he is the creator.

why did he create?


is it because he was bored?

[quote name='Myles Domini' date='May 09 2006, 12:28 AM']

as if a being who cannot desire more than His infinite self could get bored

[/quote]

[quote name='Myles Domini' date='May 09 2006, 12:28 AM']
to those which though philosophically immature have the credibility of arising out of the consciousness of believers (God created so that His creations could worship and magnify Him—as if God who is infinitely all knowing in His self-knowledge as well as all knowledge needs to be told by beings who have only a fraction of His understanding what He already knows with an absoluteness that escapes created comprehension).
[/quote]

CCC

[quote]

1
God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.
[/quote]


[quote name='Myles Domini' date='May 09 2006, 12:28 AM']
There is no necessity in God’s act of creation. God did not need to create us or anything. It does not add to what He is in His infinity and cannot since in Him all the potentiality in the universe is actualised already. This is why deism makes no sense since there is no logic in God creating solely to abandon what He has made. God acts to draw out being from non-being solely because He wishes that His creations can share in Himself so that they might be gifted to know what God really is deeply, intimately, and lovingly. This is the rationale behind human existence. [b]God in His generosity decided to make men so that they could experience Him, Him in whom all that we could possibly want is not a mere possibility but a reality and infinitely so: All-goodness, all-beauty, all-love. This is why when God made men He established with them a covenant.[/b]
[/quote]

him who is all love

we love his creations, we love God

men is God's creation.

Edited June 30, 2006 by ReinnieR

[ReinnieR]

the myles quote aren't in this phorum

i quoted his blog

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Budge' post='1014578' date='Jun 29 2006, 12:48 PM']
Are you all upping the interfaith ante around here?

Going to invite more Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus to sing kumbuyah with?

I know the Catholic church is forming the one world church, but usually the goal isnt stated so blantantly.

When is Phatmass going to send a donation to United Religions Intiative?

If this is something you didnt know about, you may want to write google.

[url="http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=Phatmass&btnG=Google+Search"]PHATMASS ON GOOGLE[/url]
[/quote]
budge.................univeralism (which is what you are basically accusing us of, why not just come out and say it?) subjectivizes truth. it says that what you believe is just as good as what i believe, even if our beliefs contradict. i challenge you to find one sentiment such as this in any of the teachings of the Church. i can tell you right now you won't find one b/c that is not how the Church approaches interfaith dialogue. the Church acknowledges the truths that we share w/ other religions so that we can establish common ground upon which to work. however, such acknowledgement is not simultaneously a turning of the proverbial blind eye towards our elements of disagreement. [b][i]that[/i][/b] would be universalism. the Church is in the business of acknowledging truth (not compromising it) and of bringing to fulfillment the Son's prayer to the Father that all may be one as He and the Father are one. surely this is a noble endeavor, unless of course you wish to charge your Lord and Savior w/ the very crime with which you assail His Church.

have fun in that boat. i prefer the barque of Peter.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[ReinnieR]

nice

[mongladz]

[quote name='phatcatholic' post='1014997' date='Jun 29 2006, 09:43 PM']
budge.................univeralism (which is what you are basically accusing us of, why not just come out and say it?) subjectivizes truth. it says that what you believe is just as good as what i believe, even if our beliefs contradict. i challenge you to find one sentiment such as this in any of the teachings of the Church. i can tell you right now you won't find one b/c that is not how the Church approaches interfaith dialogue. the Church acknowledges the truths that we share w/ other religions so that we can establish common ground upon which to work. however, such acknowledgement is not simultaneously a turning of the proverbial blind eye towards our elements of disagreement. [b][i]that[/i][/b] would be universalism. the Church is in the business of acknowledging truth (not compromising it) and of bringing to fulfillment the Son's prayer to the Father that all may be one as He and the Father are one. surely this is a noble endeavor, unless of course you wish to charge your Lord and Savior w/ the very crime with which you assail His Church.

have fun in that boat. i prefer the barque of Peter.

pax christi,
phatcatholic
[/quote]

Unfortunately even how good the intentions of the Pontifical Commission on the Promotion of Christian Unity is, our blessed consecrated souls pervert this by allowing desecrations particularly that of Fatima shrine and besides, ain't it for Christian unity?

Peace!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mongladz' post='1015818' date='Jul 1 2006, 03:53 PM']
Unfortunately even how good the intentions of the Pontifical Commission on the Promotion of Christian Unity is, our blessed consecrated souls pervert this by allowing desecrations particularly that of Fatima shrine and besides, ain't it for Christian unity?

Peace!
[/quote]
If you're going to talk about desecrations and place the burden on the Church, you'd better cite your sources.

[mongladz]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1015828' date='Jul 1 2006, 02:05 PM']
If you're going to talk about desecrations and place the burden on the Church, you'd better cite your sources.
[/quote]

Are consecrated souls not part of the Chruch? [url="http://freerepublic.info/focus/f-religion/1162953/posts"]I hope this helps[/url] or [url="http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/0704desec.asp"]this.[/url]

Edited July 1, 2006 by mongladz

[cmotherofpirl]

Is this more stuff from the discredited priest Father Gruner?

[mongladz]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1015839' date='Jul 1 2006, 02:26 PM']
Is this more stuff from the discredited priest Father Gruner?
[/quote]

Portugal's National TV speaks better.

[url="http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g08htHindusAtFatima_Vennari.html"]This is better[/url]

Edited July 1, 2006 by mongladz

[cmotherofpirl]

THis is old news and has already been dealt with by the Church.

[mongladz]

How did it turned out?

[mongladz]

Correio da manhã the second largest newspaper in Portugal, ran the front page story on February 12, 2006: “Fatima Rejects Control by Pope”. It was subtitled: “Bishop Carlos Azevedo guarantees that the Vatican will never control the Shrine and Bishop Januário Torgal reinforces that ‘Fatima does not need any theological police’.”

This report came the day after the February 11 Expresso, another prominent Portuguese daily, published that the Fatima Shrine will be changing its statutes due to direct intervention of the Vatican. The Shrine now will be “run by four bishops and greater control will be had by the Holy See”. The newspaper further claimed that Fatima will have a permanent delegate of the Vatican appointed to the task of “theological vigilance”.

“The motivation for this change according to what Expresso verified from several sources in the hierarchy”, said Expresso, “is the fact of the present Rector having opened up the Shrine to the worship of other religious confessions. In 2001, this happened with the visit to Fatima of the Dalai Lama — who prayed in the Little Chapel of the Apparitions — and more recently, with the realization of an ecumenical congress about shrines and various religions and a visit of a group of Hindus to the Cova da Iria in 2004.”

No offense but we should also be considerate on what actually happens. I stand for the Chruch and its final.

Pope Leo XIII said in his encyclical Immortale Dei that it is [b]“unlawful to place the various forms of divine worship on the same footing as the true religion.”[/b]

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='mongladz' post='1015818' date='Jul 1 2006, 02:53 PM']
Unfortunately even how good the intentions of the Pontifical Commission on the Promotion of Christian Unity is, our blessed consecrated souls pervert this by allowing desecrations particularly that of Fatima shrine and besides, ain't it for Christian unity?

Peace!
[/quote]


hey pham welcome my friend mongladz!!

[Era Might]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1014827' date='Jun 29 2006, 10:20 PM']The church never used to "make friends" with other relegions.[/quote]
Sam, when are you gonna stop speaking about things you know nothing about? Take a few years off and learn. It'll help.

[quote]This is the reason why [b]the Catholic Church has neither scorned nor rejected the pagan philosophies. Instead, after freeing them from error and all contamination she has perfected and completed them by Christian revelation[/b]. So likewise the Church has graciously made her own the native art and culture which in some countries is so highly developed. She has carefully encouraged them and has brought them to a point of aesthetic perfection that of themselves they probably would never have attained. By no means has she repressed native customs and traditions but has given them a certain religious significance; she has even transformed their feast days and made them serve to commemorate the martyrs and to celebrate mysteries of the faith. In this connection, St. Basil says very well: "Just as dyers prepare the material to be dyed by certain processes beforehand and only when this has been done do they color it with purple or some other color: likewise if the unfading glory of the just is to be ours for all time we shall first be prepared by these external rites and then we shall master the teachings and mysteries of Faith. When we become accustomed to looking at the reflection of the sun in the water, we shall turn to gaze upon the sun itself. . . Certainly the essential function of a tree is to produce fruit in season; still the foliage that its branches also bear serves to adorn it. In the same way the primary fruit of the soul is truth itself; but the garb of natural culture is a welcome addition, just as leaves provide shade for the fruit and add to its beauty. Thus Moses, a man of the greatest renown for his wisdom, is said to have come to the contemplation of Him, Who is, only after being trained in Egyptian lore. So later the wise Daniel is said to have been first schooled in Babylon in the wisdom of the Chaldeans, and only then to have come to know Divine Revelation."

--Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Letter "Evangelii Praecones"

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_02061951_evangelii-praecones_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii...aecones_en.html[/url][/quote]

Edited July 1, 2006 by Era Might

[mongladz]

[quote name='ReinnieR' post='1015947' date='Jul 1 2006, 04:00 PM']


hey pham welcome my friend mongladz!!
[/quote]


Thanks for the welcome!

Peace!

mongladz

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='mongladz' post='1015868' date='Jul 1 2006, 04:56 PM']
Correio da manhã the second largest newspaper in Portugal, ran the front page story on February 12, 2006: “Fatima Rejects Control by Pope”. It was subtitled: “Bishop Carlos Azevedo guarantees that the Vatican will never control the Shrine and Bishop Januário Torgal reinforces that ‘Fatima does not need any theological police’.”

This report came the day after the February 11 Expresso, another prominent Portuguese daily, published that the Fatima Shrine will be changing its statutes due to direct intervention of the Vatican. The Shrine now will be “run by four bishops and greater control will be had by the Holy See”. The newspaper further claimed that Fatima will have a permanent delegate of the Vatican appointed to the task of “theological vigilance”.

“The motivation for this change according to what Expresso verified from several sources in the hierarchy”, said Expresso, “is the fact of the present Rector having opened up the Shrine to the worship of other religious confessions. In 2001, this happened with the visit to Fatima of the Dalai Lama — who prayed in the Little Chapel of the Apparitions — and more recently, with the realization of an ecumenical congress about shrines and various religions and a visit of a group of Hindus to the Cova da Iria in 2004.”

No offense but we should also be considerate on what actually happens. I stand for the Chruch and its final.

Pope Leo XIII said in his encyclical Immortale Dei that it is [b]“unlawful to place the various forms of divine worship on the same footing as the true religion.”[/b]
[/quote]

The shrine is open to anyone who wants to visit, nobody stands at the door and asks if you are catholic before you pray. Was not the ecemenical congress a call to all to pray for peace? The hindu item was based on a misunderstanding and that will NOT happen again. The Shrine is Catholic and will remain under Catholic control, no matter what any individual says.

[Budge]

[quote]he Catholic Church has neither scorned nor rejected the pagan philosophies. Instead, after freeing them from error and all contamination she has perfected and completed them by Christian revelation[/quote]

Pagan philosophies SHOULD BE SCORED AND REJECTED.

As an ex-pagan UU, I scorn and reject all the false religions and teachings I was given.

Does this mean the pope believes that Baal can be perfected and completed?

This is wrong by ALL Biblical standards.

False religions in the BIble are so rejected that all the idols and pillars and more are commanded by God to be BROKEN DOWN AND DESTROYED

This pretty much is admitting That Rome is at the top of the MYSTERY BABYLON PYRAMID.
[b]
en 35:2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that [were] with him, Put away the strange gods that [are] among you, and be clean, and change your garments:[/b]

[indescribable]

Era Might you speak to my heart. it makes me happy.