Budge Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 [quote]Duh, because there is no "interfaith movement" in the Catholic Church -- thank you for making it so clear![/quote] There is an interreligious dialogue movement...same thing...[you can claim it isnt and that your clergy really is converting people to Christ via all those peace pow-wows and raps about Buddha but I know thats not happening] [quote] No, Budge, YOU are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Church does NOT permit the things you claim it permits. And you keep on parroting these lies because you don't want to deal with the repercussions of the fact that you're just plain wrong.[/quote] The Pope has done what supposely the church doesnt permit... What is wrong with you folks that you just cant say... "Hindu Masses are wrong" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stbernardLT Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1045528' date='Aug 17 2006, 02:52 PM'] There is an interreligious dialogue movement...same thing...[you can claim it isnt and that your clergy really is converting people to Christ via all those peace pow-wows and raps about Buddha but I know thats not happening] The Pope has done what supposely the church doesnt permit... What is wrong with you folks that you just cant say... "Hindu Masses are wrong" [/quote] So does that mean that masses that are done correctly are right. It is nice to see you came around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 ...Im sorry budge but, your stupid. Almost everyone here has quoted Bible verses to help you understand that we arent as pagan and satanic as you think you we are. You think you have all your Christianity cornered, but all you have down pat is a bunch of false witness and harassment. Remember we arent the stupid ones...You came to us aspousing your so infintly great and powerful wisdom. And all we asked you to do is slow down and watch what you say. But, everytime we peacefully request it you get more hostile. There is alot of members here who have made some awesome points about you and your so called "wisdom". For instance: [quote] Budge, you need to read your Bible -- you forgot about the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Over and over we've told you your claims are bogus, but you refuse to listen. Sure, you claim to be acting out of love and concern for us, but love does NOT entail having a reckless disregard for the truth and proclaiming things that just aren't true! It's your prerogative to continue telling lies about Catholics, but on Judgment Day, when you appear before the Lord, and He asks you why you left His Church and spread vicious lies about it, you won't be able to plead ignorance![/quote] He isnt the only one who has poined out the bear false witness commandment. And to be honest you are a pretty bold Christian to not even think about commandment before you type one word. Read some of the Proverbs because, he points out some good instances where the wise man (or woman) isnt always standing around acusing people of pagan stuff. He is also listening and offering respect when respect is due. ~Worship in peace the way Christ wants you to -Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 [quote] So does that mean that masses that are done correctly are right. It is nice to see you came around.[/quote] No they are all wrong. But hey with your support and defense of this, its just proven to me...how far Catholicism has succeeded in indoctrinating people into universalism. [quote] But, everytime we peacefully request it you get more hostile.[/quote] Like calling someone stupid is being non-hostile? You can keep repeating the pictures and articles FROM [b]CATHOLIC[/b] sources are lies, but that is your OUT, for refusing to deal with what I have been exposing. I am quite familiar now with the head in sand approach of online Catholic apologists. You know when Catholics start screaming LIAR to me, that shows me they have taken the well-worn path of PRIDE and refusing to listen. I know any person who makes a stand against Rome's march towards the antichrist is abused, including even Trad Catholics who havent yet figured out they need to Come out of her. Most of you have no interest in learning, you only seek to DENY, DIVERT and DEFEND even the indefensible. It is sickening how no one here is upset about the breaking of the first commandment over and over. You all dont care about Jesus Christ,worshipping other gods by those who say they are Christians, leading millions to hell, your only goal is to shut up anyone that may get you to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 I wouldn't go as far as Budge and Euty making it seem that Catholic policies condone these activities, but it is true that the Catholic hierarchy is VERY tolerant of misbehavior by their priests and bishops. There is no denying that cleric misbehavior is an endemic problem within the Roman Rite Catholic Church. Polka masses, voodoo masses, molesting priests, shuffling pedophiles, open denial of Church Dogma, Doctrine, and policy, bishops and priests playing politics within the Church or Country of residence... A complete lack of discipline. Heck, it took a YEAR to excommunicate the women who were ordaned in Australia(?)! No wonder so few men want to be priests. You have to be naive, extremely dedicated, or selfishly cynical to want to join the organization nowadays. It's a HORROR to hold hands during the Our Father, but heaven forbid we criticize the Organization that pumps out 'witch-doctor' or molesting priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 [quote]Like calling someone stupid is being non-hostile? [/quote] So who here has tried to draw the line and you have jumped over it several times? [quote]You can keep repeating the pictures and articles FROM CATHOLIC sources are lies, but that is your OUT, for refusing to deal with what I have been exposing. [/quote] You honestly havent really exposed anything. This news that you put up was public and been public for quite some time. We arent pretending not to know all these things you have been TRYING to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [quote]We arent pretending not to know all these things you have been TRYING to fight against.[/quote] If youre not pretending to know, why are you upset that someone is posting about it. [quote]but it is true that the Catholic hierarchy is VERY tolerant of misbehavior by their priests and bishops. There is no denying that cleric misbehavior is an endemic problem within the Roman Rite Catholic Church. Polka masses, voodoo masses, molesting priests, shuffling pedophiles, open denial of Church Dogma, Doctrine, and policy, bishops and priests playing politics within the Church or Country of residence..[/quote] Thanks for admitting that much Anon. Edited August 18, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1045528' date='Aug 17 2006, 12:52 PM'] There is an interreligious dialogue movement...same thing...[you can claim it isnt and that your clergy really is converting people to Christ via all those peace pow-wows and raps about Buddha but I know thats not happening] [/quote] You haven't been able to substantiate that. You can cut and paste all the news clips you want -- the church is made up of sinners who are disobedient. Some violations unfortunately take too much time to be corrected, but again if the pope and the Catholic Church were espousing a "one world religion" then a group of African bishops would not be condemning the practices of these renegade priests. Thus your position is innately contradictory and that is really the crux of the matter now matter how you want to spin in. Furthermore, to expect the Holy Father to make a comment on every abuse is simply ridiculous. It would be like expecting the President of the United States to have a press release every time a citizen of the U.S. broke the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote]Furthermore, to expect the Holy Father to make a comment on every abuse is simply ridiculous. It would be like expecting the President of the United States to have a press release every time a citizen of the U.S. broke the law. [/quote] Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well, well, well . . . Fundy reading-comprehension disorder strikes again! Since apparently Budge and Euty didn't notice (and we'll put it in big text, so they'll understand), [size=7]The Catholic Bishops were [b]CONDEMNING[/b] pagan practices![/size] "[b]STOP[/b] BEING WITCHDOCTORS!" A little hard to use this to argue that the Catholic Church [b]approves[/b] of paganism! Once again, Budge's post proves the opposite of what it was intended to prove. (But we all know posting pictures of Pope John Paul II being greeted by Africans [i]proves[/i] he's a voodoo pagan - just like posting pictures of him with Gorbachev proves he's a Commie. Moronic, not to mention racist.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote]You haven't been able to substantiate that. You can cut and paste all the news clips you want -- the church is made up of sinners who are disobedient. Some violations unfortunately take too much time to be corrected, but again if the pope and the Catholic Church were espousing a "one world religion" then a group of African bishops would not be condemning the practices of these renegade priests. Thus your position is innately contradictory and that is really the crux of the matter now matter how you want to spin in. Furthermore, to expect the Holy Father to make a comment on every abuse is simply ridiculous. It would be like expecting the President of the United States to have a press release every time a citizen of the U.S. broke the law.[/quote] You have Cardinal McCarrick praying to Allah. You have Pope's teaching "The Seeds of the Word are in pagan religions" You have Catholic-hybrid religions around the Globe--Voodoo, Columbre, Santeria, Mexican Catholics celebrating the Day of the Dead... You have a Cardinal giving homage to Ganesha with incense. You have a Pope who gathers every pagan religion he can think of in Assisi and tells them all to go pray to their demons and false spirits "for peace". By the way Benedict is doing a repeat of Assisi, I read that very recently. You have Catholics who think multiculturalism trumps preaching the gospel and inculturation that puts 'Christianity' into the blender with endless pagan practices. You have priests that dont even understand [u]after years of seminary[/u] that killing a chicken and doing liquor libations to tree spirits isnt Christian... Something is very wrong with your church. Stop sleeping, it is not just a "few sinners" or a rare Catholics. It is Catholic sites that claim they support the "unity of all religions". It is Catholics who consider it offensive for anyone to preach the gospel, and who claim cultures and church come before Jesus Christ. I am used to Rome talking about of both sides of their mouths and am totally unimpressed with your bishop's correction. What kind of religious leaders are these if they dont even understand the Holy Spirit and continue with magic spells. They never really even truly converted. The bishops can complain all they want but they are part of the problem. I wonder how many of them have attended the pow-wows where the Popes preached peace via "traditional religions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote name='Budge' date='Aug 17 2006, 09:57 PM' post='1045771'] You have Cardinal McCarrick praying to Allah.[/quote] Arabic Christians use the name "Allah" to refer to God as well. That's just the word for God in their language, no matter what their religion. [quote]You have Pope's teaching "The Seeds of the Word are in pagan religions"[/quote] Once again, you choose to misunderstand. What he meant was that even pagan religions have a little bit of truth to them. For example, even most pagan religions teach that murder, stealing, adultery, etc. are wrong. So you see? They do get some things right. So if you have some true teachings already, then it can help put someone on the road to the FULL TRUTH. [quote]You have Catholic-hybrid religions around the Globe--Voodoo, Columbre, Santeria, Mexican Catholics celebrating the Day of the Dead...[/quote] No, no, no ... that's not the fault of Catholicism! It's the fault of conversion under duress, which only makes for very weak Christians. American slaveowners forced their slaves to become Christians, and since it was coerced, the conversions didn't really "take" ... rather, they continued to worship their pagan gods and to hold to their own beliefs, while at the same time putting up a veneer of Christianity. And it's not just a Catholic problem; Protestant missionaries have gone to Africa and preached the Gospel to the natives and led them in a "sinner's prayer," and as soon as the missionaries leave, the natives start worshiping Christ ALONG WITH the other gods they believe in. [quote]You have a Cardinal giving homage to Ganesha with incense.[/quote] If this is true, it was wrong of the cardinal to do so. However, the actions of just one cardinal -- or even several -- doesn't prove the falsity of Catholicism. [quote]You have a Pope who gathers every pagan religion he can think of in Assisi and tells them all to go pray to their demons and false spirits "for peace". By the way Benedict is doing a repeat of Assisi, I read that very recently.[/quote] First of all, we all need to pray for peace, no matter who we are. Second, Pope John Paul II took the time to preach Christ to them as the Prince of Peace and the only source of true peace. If you don't believe me, look up his addresses to those attending the gathering! [quote]You have Catholics who think multiculturalism trumps preaching the gospel and inculturation that puts 'Christianity' into the blender with endless pagan practices. [/quote] Catholics who think that are wrong, and the Church teaches AGAINST syncretism! How many times do we have to tell you that?! Quit sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Lalalalalalalalalalala ... " Your claims that the Church accepts religious syncretism merely on account of the wrongdoing of individual priests, bishops, and lay people is about as ludicrous as claiming that universities condone cheating simply because rates of student cheating have gone up and yet so many students haven't gotten caught. [quote]You have priests that dont even understand [u]after years of seminary[/u] that killing a chicken and doing liquor libations to tree spirits isnt Christian...[/quote] Oh, some Catholic seminaries are really bad and don't teach authentic Catholicism. It's not the fault of the Church, though, but rather the fault of the faculty at the seminary. [quote]Something is very wrong with your church. Stop sleeping, it is not just a "few sinners" or a rare Catholics.[/quote] No one ever said the Church doesn't have problems. But wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if no one is doing it. So even if the majority of bishops started publicly preaching heresy, it wouldn't mean the Church condones it. [quote]It is Catholic sites that claim they support the "unity of all religions".[/quote] This subject has been dealt with before on here, and you have been told what Dust and the rest of us mean by it. And yet you still persist in claiming that it means something that it doesn't mean. [quote]It is Catholics who consider it offensive for anyone to preach the gospel, and who claim cultures and church come before Jesus Christ.[/quote] Any Catholic who is like that is mistaken. But you're seeing that type of thing where there isn't any! Or rather, you're CHOOSING to see it when there's none! [quote]I am used to Rome talking about of both sides of their mouths and am totally unimpressed with your bishop's correction. What kind of religious leaders are these if they dont even understand the Holy Spirit and continue with magic spells. They never really even truly converted. The bishops can complain all they want but they are part of the problem. I wonder how many of them have attended the pow-wows where the Popes preached peace via "traditional religions". [/quote] Are you so holy that you can see the intentions of our popes and bishops? Do you have magic eyes to see what kind of action or inaction they're taking? Sorry, but the Church doesn't normally make it a habit of telling the public about the actions it takes toward others behind close doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Again, all your examples are shams -- and they have been documented as such. Either you use suspect sources, photographic manipulation, or just plain ignorance. While before I thought you were being intentionally deceptive, I think I was thorougly mistaken -- you just don't know what your talking about and lack a fundamental capacity for critical thought. All you know how to do is regurgitate news clippings from fundi sites (Catholic and Protestant). Quite simply nobody is impressed and you're becoming a bore. Since you refuse to be held to a standard of truth and credibility I would exhort you not to defame your character any further. Far from rasing doubts among Catholics about their faith, I suspect you have in fact only strengthened it and shown by personal example the extremes that anti-Catholics are willing to go to malign the truth. And after all your hard work throwing dirt on the Catholic Church you have nothing to show for it -- just a very poor argument that is severely wanting. You said it best yourself -- there is no larger "one world religion" movement to condemn because it only exists in the lonely phantasms of your mind. BTW, if you have any Arab Christian friends (doubtful that you either have friends or know Christians from another country) ask them who they pray to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1045560' date='Aug 17 2006, 03:41 PM'] You know when Catholics start screaming LIAR to me, that shows me they have taken the well-worn path of PRIDE and refusing to listen. I know any person who makes a stand against Rome's march towards the antichrist is abused, including even Trad Catholics who havent yet figured out they need to Come out of her. Most of you have no interest in learning, you only seek to DENY, DIVERT and DEFEND even the indefensible. It is sickening how no one here is upset about the breaking of the first commandment over and over. You all dont care about Jesus Christ,worshipping other gods by those who say they are Christians, leading millions to hell, your only goal is to shut up anyone that may get you to think. [/quote] So, I'm curious, what is it called when you chose to blatantly disregard everything everyone is saying and merely throw insults such as prideful and claim that you know better than everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [quote] Arabic Christians use the name "Allah" to refer to God as well. That's just the word for God in their language, no matter what their religion.[/quote] Ahh yes Ive heard that excuse except your Cardinal did it for the King of Jordan and even used an Islamic prayer...and name for their god. [quote] "A few months ago, when I was privileged to pray for you on another occasion in this capital city,I asked [size=5]Allah, the compassionate and merciful Lord of all[/size] to bless you and to help you make your country a bridge across which all nations might walk in unity, fellowship and love. As I listened to your words today, I believe my prayer is being answered."[/b][/quote] Here was the original link, youll see Mccarricks name on it, they were so embarrassed they had to take it down... it was taken down the week this controversy broke. [url="http://publicaffairs.cua.edu/speeches/06McCarrickRemarksJordan.htm"]LINK[/url] [quote] Once again, you choose to misunderstand. What he meant was that even pagan religions have a little bit of truth to them. For example, even most pagan religions teach that murder, stealing, adultery, etc. are wrong. So you see? They do get some things right. So if you have some true teachings already, then it can help put someone on the road to the FULL TRUTH.[/quote] This quibbling is one reason you Catholics are so confused, with your Vatican teaching you about the truth of other religions. [quote] If this is true, it was wrong of the cardinal to do so. However, the actions of just one cardinal -- or even several -- doesn't prove the falsity of Catholicism.[/quote] I havent found one living Cardinal yet that preaches or warns against interreligious dialogue. They all involved themselves in these false actions? Why follow the wolves? [quote] First of all, we all need to pray for peace, no matter who we are. Second, Pope John Paul II took the time to preach Christ to them as the Prince of Peace and the only source of true peace. If you don't believe me, look up his addresses to those attending the gathering![/quote] Ive read Assisi paperwork quite extensively, actually they had the rule NOT to prolestyze. This was one definite march to antichrist universalism. JPII did not preach that one needs to be saved in Jesus Christ to be saved but sponsered these folks going to their individual rooms to pray to their demons and false gods. When I found out about this still as a Catholic, it was one thing that woke me up. [quote] Catholics who think that are wrong, and the Church teaches AGAINST syncretism! How many times do we have to tell you that?! Quit sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Lalalalalalalalalalala ... " Your claims that the Church accepts religious syncretism merely on account of the wrongdoing of individual priests, bishops, and lay people is about as ludicrous as claiming that universities condone cheating simply because rates of student cheating have gone up and yet so many students haven't gotten caught.[/quote] Those words are empty. When you have your own Popes and Cardinals committing endless acts of syncretism...and you are in deep denial if you think it is only rare individuals in your heirarchy involving themselves in these acts, it is MOST of them if not all. [quote]No one ever said the Church doesn't have problems. But wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if no one is doing it.[u] So even if the majority of bishops started publicly preaching heresy, it wouldn't mean the Church condones it[/u].[/quote] I guess Satan has his wiles to get you to follow these Christ-rejecters into the ditch. [quote]Are you so holy that you can see the intentions of our popes and bishops? Do you have magic eyes to see what kind of action or inaction they're taking? Sorry, but the Church doesn't normally make it a habit of telling the public about the actions it takes toward others behind close doors.[/quote] I can read on the Vatican website myself what they teach, say and do. It has nothing with me being more holy...but Gods Word and what it teaches. This doesnt have to do with me. Their actions are against Christ, Assisi was against Christ, teaching there are truths in false religions is against Christ, hobnobbing with the UN is against Christ, they are leading all of you into the ditch. [quote]. Either you use suspect sources, photographic manipulation, or just plain ignorance. While before I thought you were being intentionally deceptive, [/quote] Are these photoshopped too? Someone better tell the Vatican. [url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/index_photo_assisi_en.html"]PHOTOS STRAIGHT FROM THE VATICAN[/url] [img]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/img/20020124_n6.jpg[/img] Vooduns doing their rituals at Assisi. [quote] Since you refuse to be held to a standard of truth and credibility I would exhort you not to defame your character any further. Far from rasing doubts among Catholics about their faith, I suspect you have in fact only strengthened it and shown by personal example the extremes that anti-Catholics are willing to go to malign the truth.[/quote] You are attacking me because you do not want to face facts about what is happening in your church. I faced them and I got out, realizing the Catholic Church is the counterfeit church warned of in Revelation. Edited August 18, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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