TempleofVesarius Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 (edited) First mp.....that makes no sense... Do you drive on roads???...Do you drink water from a system built by the goverment??? Do you have a military that protects you?? Did you go to school??? Do you have a local fire department??? THAT IS WHY IT IS NOT AN INFRINGEMENT ON YOUR RIGHTS TO PAY TAXES you get what you pay for if ya pay too much it may be... Edited July 29, 2003 by TempleofVesarius
jasJis Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 Are you an authority to yourself? The same authority you say is right to allow you to vote, is the same authority that says you can't drink. Is the authority wrong allways? Is the authority never right? Are you more right than the authority? Besides, two different things. The government that allows a 16 year old to operate a ton of steel at 70 miles an hour on a road with others does not allow them to vote or enter into a legal contract. A government that allows the 16 year old to make life and death decisions on the highway will not let him join the Army and shoot people. The government that allows a sober 18 year old cast a vote for President along with millions of others can choose to not allow a drunk 18 year old to function in society. That means the UPS guy who comes to your door doesen't have to expect to deal with drunk 19 year olds. High school administrators don't have to expect to deal with drunk and hungover students. It's wonderful for you if you are 18 and can drink responsiblly. That's great if all 18 year olds can and not impact society. We do have a representative Government. I voted when the drinking age came to a vote in Florida. It was in the paper that if less 5% of the eligible 18 to 20 year olds registered and voted, the law would not have changed. Most people don't vote, and they didn't. Majority rules.
mp15 Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 Sorry, but to me it makes perfect sense. Your arguing that underage drinking does not harm society. I was just making an analogy that it does harm society as much as not paying taxes would. I could make other's but I'm sure you wouldn't see the sense in those either. By the way, how old are you? It's allways nice to know the maturity level of one I'm conversing with.
jasJis Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 (edited) Bull, It's all well and good to disagree with ancedotal stories. But are they true or an urban legend. What are the teen alcoholism rates in Russia? Again, Societies are a fact of Human nature and how God created us. We form institutions, such as governements for an ordered Society. Governments do not have to be perfect to be legitimate. Laws do not have to perfect to be legitimate. If obedience to law is left up to personal choice, we would not have a Society, we would have anarchy. Where do you draw the limit on obeying human governmental laws? It's a simple question to answer if you are a Christian. We give to Ceasar what is Cesar's. We give to God what is God's. We obey Ceasar's laws unless we are assured that by obeying Ceasar's law we disobey God's laws. Edited July 29, 2003 by jasJis
TempleofVesarius Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 sometimes logic amazes me ok if i am logically allowed to vote, drive a car, own a firearm, but I cant have a beer.....it seems the others are alot more dangerous to me
mp15 Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 Oh and jas, don't get me started with 16 year olds being allowed to drive. That should be illegal as well.
jasJis Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 mp15, I agree. My 16 year old was not allowed to drive by herself and I believe she is more mature than 95% of 16 year olds.
mp15 Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 jas, you sound like a great dad. Keep up the good work, as we need more fathers such as yourself. Peace, Marcus
TempleofVesarius Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 (edited) I do drink at home....thats where i have my bonfires with my friends scratch that....i still go to parties....but my rents know if im gonna drink or not and even if i do drink they trust me to be responsable about it....still doesnt mean I agree with it Edited July 29, 2003 by TempleofVesarius
TempleofVesarius Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 not to get off subject... but you rminded me of some interesting quotes "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." -unknown
BullnaChinaShop Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 My biggest gripe with the 21 drinking age is its inconsitencies with legal adulthood. If this contradiction had not been present I would have been much more likely to follow whatever drinking law applied. If I can be drafted to go died for my country then I sure as heck better have all the rights and responsibilities of an adult including buying alcohol. I personally don't have a proble with 16 year olds driving. What I have a problem with is the laughable driving tests that any imbecile can pass. I think there should be a requirement for a stringent drivers test for anyone who want to earn the adult responsibility of driving a car.
Anna Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." -unknown I'll drink to that! Pax Christi. <><
mp15 Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 Bull, if you had seen a lot of the things I have seen teenage drivers do, it might change you mind rather quickly. Put a group of teenagers in a car without adult supervision and the results can be frightening.
TempleofVesarius Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 ahhhhhhh hyper that is what i thought take alook at this site tho http://www.winstonchurchill.org/
BullnaChinaShop Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 I have seen a lot of things that stupid teenagers do. But if these same teenagers all had to work to earn the right to drive they would take that right and the responsibilities that go along with it more seriously. Anytime someone has to work for something it becomes more valuable to them.
jasJis Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 Bull, It is not morally acceptable to obey or disobey a law based soley on our opinion of it's a good law or bad law. We are obliged to disobey a law that would force us to act immorally. All other laws are to be respected as legitimate because the nature of humans is societal creatures and we require social order.
mp15 Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 I dont disagree with you.... I just ask that you observe how mature I am on your own and not label me because of my age. I am not like many 18 year olds. My friends arent like many 18 year olds. But we have experienced much more of the world than most 18 year olds. This attitude is not surprising. As I have already said, I thought the same way at your age. I'm sure all your friends feel the same way too. This attitude coming from 18 year old's hasn't changed for eons. It matters little how mature you think you are, because I guarantee you'll feel differently about life in about 20 years.
jasJis Posted July 29, 2003 Posted July 29, 2003 i'm starting to think it's sad that alcohol is this important to this many people. I agree. Why break the law and risk the consequences just to drink a few beers? How sad do you have to bee to require alcohol to have a good time and socialize or to relax? It's amazing that some people think alcohol is so important that they thing it's a 'fundamental right'.
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